Italics- help me

karo.ambrose · Dec 29, 2006

In my novel, I use them for poetry and flashbacks, but decided to use regular text for inner thoughts. I didn't want to use italics for all three.

Problem with this is, in my MS, the narrative switch from 3rd limited to the characters' inner thoughts has been causing confusion. And I know that if I just put all the thoughts in italics, the problem would be solved. But I didn't want to do an italics overload, seeing that I'm already using them for poetry and flashbacks.

When do you use italics? When is it appropriate? Is there any other format I could use to differentiate the inner thoughts from the regular narration?

And I really don't want to put in a tag like "I'm a special guy, thought Jimmy." I know I could and it would maybe help with clarification, but it seems like I'm underestimating the reader when I say that. My entire MS is in past tense, but I switch to present when I go into their thoughts, so I thought that would be clear enough. I dunno.

Suggestions?

IrishScribbler · Dec 29, 2006

I suppose it depends on how much flashback/poetry you use. In my WIP, I'm using italics for thoughts and journal entries (which can be plentiful), but there's enough narration to break it up so it doesn't look like the whole piece is in italics.

PeeDee · Dec 29, 2006

I don't use italics for internal thought, but I don't write internal thought like dialogue.

I don't do this:

I'm in deep doodoo thought Professor Lawrence, looking at the Cannibles.

I would do this:

Professor Lawrence looked at the Cannibles, and realized that he was in very deep doodoo indeed.

I just work it into the narrative. I might suggest something similar for you? Otherwise, I would just use italics.

ORION · Dec 29, 2006

You might consider using italics for only the thoughts , indenting the poetry, and having the flashbacks in normal text. I have flashbacks that I use in normal text - not italics and it works well. My editor has not messed with it so I guess it may work OK for mine.
Have you considered using another font for the poetry? If it isn't too outrageous that may be acceptable.

James D. Macdonald · Dec 29, 2006

Be very careful with flashbacks. They can easily be overused. Only break strict chronology for the very best of reasons.

You don't need to use italics for inner thoughts -- for example, Shaara runs inner thoughts as straight text in The Killer Angels and it works well. The rule to remember here is: Don't confuse the reader.

illiterwrite · Dec 29, 2006

I hate reading huge blocks of text in italics, so I don't italicize flashbacks or other "chunks" of writing (letters, etc.). Instead, I just use regular text and save italics for internal thoughts (used sparingly) or emphasis.

johnzakour · Dec 29, 2006

I actually don't enjoy reading lots of italics or flashbacks. The one former I find harder on my eyes. The later I find harder on my brain.

PeeDee · Dec 29, 2006

I wouldnt' mind flashbacks so much if they weren't so frequently sheer garbage. And why flash back, anyway? Can't you have a really interesting conversation between characters and convey the same information.

Chasing the Horizon · Dec 29, 2006

I use italics for emphasis and that's it. I don't have 'flashbacks' in my book, but I do have dreams and hallucinations which I just leave in regular text. If the readers can't figure out that it's not actually happening without italics, then they haven't been paying much attention for the past hundred pages.

I also have poetry in my books. I currently have this in a different font and would like to see it stay this way when it gets published.

As for thoughts, I incorporate them into the narrative. It's not that hard to just rework the sentence to make it part of the narrative. I personally find both tags and italics for thoughts distracting when I'm reading. It seems to flow better when they are just part of the narrative.

I second what some others here have said. Whole paragraphs of italics give me a headache.

TsukiRyoko · Dec 30, 2006

I usually use italics for thoughts, as you suggested, but whenever I choose to use them for poetry, flashbacks, etc etc, I use single quotations for them. As for what italics are SUPPOSED to be use for, I can't say for sure, but I agree that using italics for 3 different things in the same story/essay/blah blah blah would be a bit much. I'd say stick to single quotes.

James D. Macdonald · Dec 30, 2006

Most novels with poetry in them are improved by going through and deleting all the poetry.

aruna · Dec 30, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Most novels with poetry in them are improved by going through and deleting all the poetry.

I tend to skip poetry in novels.

johnzakour · Dec 30, 2006

Actually, I do use italics for song lyrics (which I always keep short).

Good Word · Dec 30, 2006

Okay, I've been dealing with this recently in my own work and also with something I'm editing for someone else. The piece I'm reading has the first portion of the thought not in italics, and identifies it as a thought, then italicizes portions afterward. I understand the method and have seen it elsewhere, but still unsure about its effectiveness. I find it a tad confusing in places, but maybe that's just me. For example:

Goddamn that hurt, Dave thought, rubbing his hip. I've got to remember to keep that drawer closed.

Comments?

rugcat · Dec 30, 2006

It looks funny to me. I would prefer "Goddamn that hurt," in italics as well. I think anything that looks funny on a page, whether it's 'proper' or not, even if it's a very minor issue, can distract the reader. Which, as we all know, is not a good thing.

miles · Dec 30, 2006

When I was first looking for an agent, my MS dealt with two time periods--ancient (in present tense) and modern (in past tense). I had originally separated the two by italicizing one of them.

However, since the novel started in ancient times, and that's the part that was italicized, I was worried about beginning with a big block of italics (didn't want to risk turning off an agent by making them look at italics on the first page and perhaps not reading on).

So, I just made it all the same, and was glad I did. I think it's possible an agent could reject an MS that starts with italics because it's a turn off. But an agent won't reject one because italics weren't used.

Bottom line, play it safe, and safe is not to use them. If an agent or publisher wishes to change it, that's their choice.

karo.ambrose · Dec 30, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Most novels with poetry in them are improved by going through and deleting all the poetry.

I knew it!

O well, they can skip over it if they want, it stays.

Miles, I just read Lisey's Story by Stephen King and that's what he does. Present is in past tense and past is in present tense. Sounds like backwards logic, but it was effective to me.

Bartholomew · Dec 30, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Most novels with poetry in them are improved by going through and deleting all the poetry.

One exception to this rule, I think, is Clive Barker's Abarat. The poetry in that is intersperced between chapters and works as a cute world building device--and doesn't do anything cliche, like hinting at a prophesy or something. There is only one poem, that I remember, in the actual text of the book.

One of the head villian's lackey's is reading a grim little nursery rhyme while waiting for the master to return. Right as he reaches the final beat of the poem, it cuts off because the head villian clears his throat.

Not only does it create a sense of realism by cutting the poem short, it also builds a surprising amount of tension.

I'd never try that, myself. My poetry is drivel.

Italics- help me

karo.ambrose

._.

IrishScribbler

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

ORION

Sailed away years ago

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

illiterwrite

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Chasing the Horizon

Blowing in the Wind

TsukiRyoko

Forced into cell phone life

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Good Word

still crazy after all these years

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

miles

agent at The Knight Agency

karo.ambrose

._.

Bartholomew

Comic guy