More on original names. (Thanks, Silverhand)

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kct webber

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A thread by Silverhand brought a discussion to mind. Yes, to mind--I talk to myself. I answer myself too. (Thanks Silverhand). He was asking, “How original are you?”

I have to ask, “Am I too original?” And, make no mistake, not in a good way. Oh no, not in a good way at all. More in a much-work-may-need-to-be-done way.

My critique group gave me good feedback after reading my novel. Not all good, I should say, but valuable. All in all, though, they were simple things and easy fixes. One thing that many of them said, however, was that the names were weird, hard to pronounce, etc. When I asked what the worst thing about the book was, some gave names as the reply.

Keep in mind: some members of said critique group were not fantasy buffs, as such. I would expect them to have trouble. I included them for a different perspective and due to my belief that good writing and a good story transcends genre. But I read fantasy and a lot of it. I see a lot of fantasy in which the names are weirder than mine, in my opinion.

I began to get worried when so many people brought it up, though. I look at the names and think, ‘what is so hard about that?’ I really don’t get it. They are pronounced exactly like they’re spelled. But then again, I wrote them. Just for your knowledge, for the names of one race, I used derivatives of old German and Turkish words that had, I thought, an interesting effect.

Having said that, I want to know what you think about a few questions/viewpoints.

When I read, I don’t care whether I can pronounce a name. I’ve always been like that. I’ve always been of the opinion that I read with my eyeballs, not my mouth--I don’t need to pronounce a name. As long as it’s readable and easy to distinguish from other names, I’m happy. Honestly, I never considered that anyone else was any different. Oops. How do you feel about whether or not you can easily pronounce a name?

Given that thriller readers or romance readers are used to names like Lance, Bob, Karen, Janet and Archibald, I don’t doubt that they would have trouble with Turkish mixed with old German. I go to the Middle East and I can’t pronounce their names either. And why would I expect to be able to? They are a completely different culture, as is a different race in a novel. Should I disregard the opinions of non-fantasy readers in this area? Or...

Should I change it for them as an effort to expand potential readership later on? Or...

Should I keep it like it is, think outside the box, wait for the potential fight with the editor and only change it if I lose?

One last note: All of the readers that had trouble with the names suggested a pronunciation guide in the back of the book. I have always thought that if a book cannot stand on its feet without the maps, guides and illustrations, you have a problem somewhere. Even if you include these things later, it should be able to stand without them--just my view. In short, I included it; they were happy.

Thoughts?



 

Alex Bravo

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I think the harder you make it, you give the readers reasons not to read. I love novels with many characters and love to give them all names, but readers were complaining about not remembering who was who, so I scaled back and only named characters important to the story. The others were left as generic no-name characters, etc...

Also, the names I used were very difficult, so I tried to find innovative names that were also simple and easy to remember. Here's another hint. For characters with monstrous names: give the character a nickname, something that fits the person, a reason for the nickname. Give several people nicknames, and that makes it easy to remember the character and something about them because it is in the nickname. And almost everyone will remember a nickname.
 

Silverhand

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As a reader, I find that names that don't stick with basic speech mechanics distract me.

I try to keep all my names, unless its a dragon, god, or angel, somewhat correct. I only elaborate on these names, because they are very high on the food chain...and it only makes sense that their names would be more non-uniform to mortal phonetics.

Now, if you are using names that are Germanic in origin, then most have a semblence of aunniciation mechanics, right?

I mean there is a major difference between....I dunno...Alixtrassaz...and Vulsendavitgalvatronixitxll.

I hope that helps. :) Its awesome my subject line made you think btw.
 

kct webber

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Silverhand said--Now, if you are using names that are Germanic in origin, then most have a semblence of aunniciation mechanics, right?

A lot of the stuff I pulled from German has easy stuff, imo, like: Au = ow; ie = e (long); ei = i (long). I think it's the Turkish stuff that gets them (the link to Turkish is very loose). It has a lot of wierd consonent mixes: Sj, Mk, Kt, Ts, etc. The two together make words like: Tseidec, Riau, Ofearu, and the like.

Also, what do you think about the pronuciation guide? Again, I kind-of thought it was cheating, but it seemed to make them happy.
 

Jamesaritchie

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kct webber said:
etc. The two together make words like: Tseidec, Riau, Ofearu, and the like.

Such names wouldn't drive me crazy, I've read worse, but they wouldn't endear me to the writer, either. I hate the idea of a pronunciation guide. If I need it, I'm probably not going to read the novel.
 

BardSkye

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One glance in a bookstore finding a pronunciation guide and I'd put it back without even giving the story a try. But then, I like fairly simple names.

One of my co-writers has a fondness for Persian-derived names. We've used two but given both characters shorter, easier nicknames after the initial intro.
 

endless

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*snickers*

That would be me. I love the elegance of the sounds used in Farsi and Arabic. One really must be careful using different languages for names, and a dictionary is always wise. Why?

Just in case you wind up calling your heroine something rude, that's why!
 

johnzakour

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I usually like to keep my character names simple and straight forward (and fun) so they don’t get in the way of the story.

I learned this the hard way. I wrote a SF YA where I gave all the characters names that were alliterations. I sent it to an editor who said they found the names so distracting they wanted to dislike the book. After I changed the names of every character in the book the editor was much more receptive.
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
kct webber said:
When I read, I don’t care whether I can pronounce a name. I’ve always been like that. I’ve always been of the opinion that I read with my eyeballs, not my mouth--I don’t need to pronounce a name.

When I read, I hear the words in my head. As such, I need to sound out unfamiliar names and words. I don't have a problem with most names in fantasy novels, but I could be an exception in that regard.

Whether more people are like you or like me, I don't know. That would be the question to answer.
 

jpsorrow

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I also read the names and don't worry about whether or not I can pronounce them. I'm reading them after all, not speaking them out loud. So in general weird names aren't distracting to me. I don't use pronunciation guides in books, or dramatis personae, or indices, or appendices or anything like that. I read the book. I'm not turned off by these either; if they're there, I just ignore them.

I do look over maps. *grin*

That being said, I ran into a problem with my own novels when using weird names. For my first book (unpublished as yet), I had diverse cultures with weird names and I named practically everything. The main comment I got from editors and agents was that this was overwhelming. In the first book I sold, the names are extremely simple, and there aren't very many weird names at all. I used variants of common names: Mari, Nathem, etc. I also used regular common names: William, Erick, etc. I had a few--VERY FEW--weird names: Varis, Borund, Avrell, etc. My main character had a weird name (Varis).

What I got out of all of this reaction from agents and editors and whatnot is that it isn't really the weird names that create the problem and alienate the reader . . . it's the PROFUSION of weird names. If every single thing has a weird or strange name, every person, every ritual, every tree, every item, etc, then the sheer volume of weird names turns the reader off because they can no longer keep track of it all and lose the desire to try. That's when they set the book down. And this can overwhelm how good they think the story is as well.

So my advice, and this is what I try to do, is to keep some weird names, but use them sparingly, perhaps for the most important people or events or items, and make all of the other names as simple as possible. Simple doesn't necessarily mean common, just . . . easy. Instead of Whipkillimaren, just call him Whip. (Then call the next person Killi and the next Maren.) Don't call that weird grass creature yvganrieal, have the characters call it Grass.

If you really must keep the weird, strange name, then do as others here have suggested: introduce the person/creature/item with the weird name, but then immediately give it a nickname and use the nickname more often than the weird name. The yvganrieal monster could be nicknamed Grass.

But again, I don't think readers react so much to the fact that a few things have strange names, I think they react to TOO MANY things have strange names. You don't want your reader to have to WORK to read your novel, you want them to relax when they read it, to sink into the experience.
 
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endless

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You want the reader to have some frame of reference for your book. You can have a certain number of vernacular, but too much is very distracting.

For instance:

Flimby travelled to Snerb on a nonce.

Reads much better as:

Anvar travelled to Mars City on a cyborg horse.
 

kct webber

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Endless-- One really must be careful using different languages for names, and a dictionary is always wise. Why? Just in case you wind up calling your heroine something rude, that's why!

That's a good point. I always make sure that I know what the words mean before I use them. And I tear them apart pretty good too. How I learned this... Well, let's just say that the Turkish word for giraffe is also the Turkish slang for lesbian. I don't know why, but there it is. How 'bout if I had named a heroine that, huh? :0

The point about nicknames is good too, as is the point about frequency of use. I'm still leaning toward the idea that if I need a pronunciation guide, I'm wrong. Even if I include it, I shouldn't HAVE TO include it.

All good advice. Thanks. I welcome any other (or more of the same) viewpoints, of course.
 
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