Using Simple Words

Vaxil · Dec 21, 2006

Mainly in Fantasy novels, what exactly is so wrong about using simple words to name things?

For instance, in my fantasy book I have a set of people named 'Recorders', which is basically what they do, record things and give assignments. When I explained this to a friend of mine, she highly disagreen and said 'Scribes' sounds better.

To me, I disagree. Scribes just sounds so....used...I don't know. And I know 'Recorder' is so blunt and un-creative, but it honestly just sounds right to me!

For instance, in K.A Applegate's series, she commonly uses the term 'thought-speak' for telekinese, how her characters communicate. It's very simple and 'uncreative' in terms, but it works well and whenever I read it, I think of it as an actual word with a meaning, not a lame uncreative way to say telekinese.

I understands the concept of 'It's your book; do what you want.' but ignoring that rule, honestly, is there anything wrong with using simple words and terms to name a noun? Does it really sound THAT 'bad-writer' like?

Silver King · Dec 21, 2006

Vaxil said:
is there anything wrong with using simple words and terms to name a noun? Does it really sound THAT 'bad-writer' like?

Your gut feeling will take you a long way, Vaxil.

Use the simplest terms you can find to convey whatever thoughts and descriptions you mean to convey, no matter what type of writing you pursue. Anything else will surely make you sound forced and "bad-writer like."

JasonChirevas · Dec 21, 2006

Vaxil said:
Mainly in Fantasy novels, what exactly is so wrong about using simple words to name things?

For instance, in my fantasy book I have a set of people named 'Recorders', which is basically what they do, record things and give assignments. When I explained this to a friend of mine, she highly disagreen and said 'Scribes' sounds better.

To me, I disagree. Scribes just sounds so....used...I don't know. And I know 'Recorder' is so blunt and un-creative, but it honestly just sounds right to me!

For instance, in K.A Applegate's series, she commonly uses the term 'thought-speak' for telekinese, how her characters communicate. It's very simple and 'uncreative' in terms, but it works well and whenever I read it, I think of it as an actual word with a meaning, not a lame uncreative way to say telekinese.

I understands the concept of 'It's your book; do what you want.' but ignoring that rule, honestly, is there anything wrong with using simple words and terms to name a noun? Does it really sound THAT 'bad-writer' like?

I don't write fantasy, but getting me to read one would be a hell of a lot more about story than what the trappings were called.

That said, scribes sounds cliche to me; I'd stick with recorders.

-Jason

Simon Woodhouse · Dec 21, 2006

Vaxil said:
Mainly in Fantasy novels, what exactly is so wrong about using simple words to name things?

There's nothing wrong with it.

I write sci-fi, and a couple of the things I've written have robots in them. I much prefer giving them simple names like Number Six, or Upright Number Eight (shortened to U8). I like to give my characters nice simple names as well. My favourite sci-fi author, Iain M Banks, tends to give his characters really elaborate names. When I'm reading something of his, I either skip over the names, or rename the characters something simple like Fred or Bert.

blacbird · Dec 21, 2006

Vaxil said:
Mainly in Fantasy novels, what exactly is so wrong about using simple words to name things?

Nothing.

caw

Birol · Dec 21, 2006

Can't thing of a single thing wrong with it.

Oliveman · Dec 21, 2006

Something else I should add in about naming of occupations. Remember that the names for what people do did not simply pop up one day, but are part of the culture. The names you use will make different impressions on your readers about what the culture is like, and however much it differs from cliches sets off whatever occupation or name this is from what is to be expected. If things are, in such cases, exactly as they are to be expected by a reader, you have the option of sticking with "Scribe". Personally, though, "Recorder" sounds alot more meaningful, and the fact that they would use this name says something about the culture, you see? Also, people might call the same group of people different things, as a reflection of how they are viewed differently in the culture. It's not all cut and dry, and naming does have an impact on the perception of your fantasy landscape. Say if you were to call them "Scribiographers" it would stand out as different and a product of your made-up society. Just remember to keep all these things in mind, and you'll come up with some great names.

Zolah · Dec 22, 2006

Well, to be fair 'scribe' is a pretty simple word. But it means something different than 'recorder', doesn't it? A scribe was someone who was paid to write out letters and documents in a beautiful, readable hand. They didn't (contrary to common belief) go around recording events for the fun of it, or because it was their sociological function. If this group of people in your world has the sociological function of recording everything for posterity, it would make much better sense to call them that, than to try and use a different term just because it sounds more Oldy-Worldy. I think your friend is wrong.

Tracy · Dec 22, 2006

It's good to listen to other people's opinions. But it's your book. Don't let it be written by committee. A huge part of an author's job is to make decisions and live by them, so do that. You need to balance an appropriate humility on the one hand with having the courage of your convictions on the other.

Saundra Julian · Dec 22, 2006

I hate books that have a MC or others are named Xcveetyethji...or something equally as stupid. If I can't pronounce it, I won't remember it for long and who wants to read a book like that?

Willowmound · Dec 22, 2006

Vaxil said:
Mainly in Fantasy novels, what exactly is so wrong about using simple words to name things?

Please use simple words. No story ever got better through 'creative spelling' or raiding the thesaurus. No story ever got better through calling shovels spades either.

Vaxil said:
For instance, in K.A Applegate's series, she commonly uses the term 'thought-speak' for telekinese, how her characters communicate. It's very simple and 'uncreative' in terms, but it works well and whenever I read it, I think of it as an actual word with a meaning, not a lame uncreative way to say telekinese.

The word you are looking for is 'telepathy'. Telekinesis means to move things with your mind.

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 22, 2006

Vaxil said:
I understands the concept of 'It's your book; do what you want.' but ignoring that rule, honestly, is there anything wrong with using simple words and terms to name a noun? Does it really sound THAT 'bad-writer' like?

It's your book, do what you want. :tongue

And actually, I don't think recorder is any simpler than scribe, just different words for subtly different acts.

In fact, recorder in my thesaurus is one of the synonyms for scribe. But whatever sounds right to you and the world you're creating.

Recorder. Archivist. Clerk. Scrivener. Scribe.

I think you shouldn't get so caught up with naming conventions and just worry about if it's a good story. If it's a whiz-bang-bam of a story, then your reader will pretty much accept whatever words you use. Even if you call them Amanuensis. (Aren't thesauri wonderful?)

Higgins · Dec 22, 2006

I agree

Zolah said:
Well, to be fair 'scribe' is a pretty simple word. But it means something different than 'recorder', doesn't it? A scribe was someone who was paid to write out letters and documents in a beautiful, readable hand. They didn't (contrary to common belief) go around recording events for the fun of it, or because it was their sociological function. If this group of people in your world has the sociological function of recording everything for posterity, it would make much better sense to call them that, than to try and use a different term just because it sounds more Oldy-Worldy. I think your friend is wrong.

What's wrong with scribe? There's nothing "complex" about it and it is shorter than recorder. "Recorder" sounds contrived and mechanical to me.
You might consider skipping the separate notation of a writing function and just call them "Sun Priests" or something or Apocalytikites Tykes in Tights (ATTs or Atties for their familiars).

Or just tykes. Or paperboys. Newsmen. Inksters....

NeuroFizz · Dec 22, 2006

Using simple words, as a writing philosophy, is a worthwhile endeavor, but I think it is superseded by another--using the right words. The right word may not always be the simplest one.

Synonyms for scribe = penman, inscriber, copyist, transcriber, letterer, calligrapher, penner, reporter, chronicler, and others

Synomyms for recorder = registrar, archivist, annalist, chronicler, chronologer, historian, marker, scorer, and others

While the lists for scribe and recorder show considerable overlap, they also show each word has a slightly different "flavor." Find and use the word that has the best "flavor" for your story.

engmajor2005 · Dec 22, 2006

Vaxil said:
For instance, in my fantasy book I have a set of people named 'Recorders', which is basically what they do, record things and give assignments. When I explained this to a friend of mine, she highly disagreen and said 'Scribes' sounds better.

They give assignments? How about "taskmasters?" It's simple, but it has a bit more weight, a bit more pinache, if you will. Recorder does sound a bit boring and scribe sounds a bit showy. Taskmaster, I think, gets the point across.

But it is your books. :smile:

Doug Johnson · Dec 22, 2006

The word should match the society. "Scribe" would be wrong for a modern, high tech society. "Scribe" would work better for an ancient society.

Vaxil · Dec 22, 2006

The word you are looking for is 'telepathy'. Telekinesis means to move things with your mind.

>< Thats right, so sorry.

MidnightMuse · Dec 22, 2006

I'd like to echo what Neuro said - using the right word is key. And the simplier the better, for the most part. Why muck up a good flow with a word your readers are going to have to pause and think about? If Recorders best describes what these people are and do, then Recoders it is.

Most Fantasy and Science Fiction readers are able to go with the flow pretty well, but you still want to keep things trim and uncomplicated, so they don't get in the way of the story and characters. There are quite a few Science Fiction novels out there with some names I can't wrap my mental tongue around when I read, and as much as I've loved the stories themselves, it's very frustrating to stumble over names and titles that didn't have to be that complex.

Elektra · Dec 22, 2006

"Recorder" makes me think that this is a very recent occupation. "Scribe" makes me think it goes back aways. It's like how we don't call people "pipefixers", even though nobody has used the word 'plumb' for years (okay, they have, but it's not at all common).

Higgins · Dec 22, 2006

And we frown on lead pipes

Elektra said:
"Recorder" makes me think that this is a very recent occupation. "Scribe" makes me think it goes back aways. It's like how we don't call people "pipefixers", even though nobody has used the word 'plumb' for years (okay, they have, but it's not at all common).

And we try not to use lead pipes too much.

I think "simple" is an odd criterion for the name of a wierd job in a fantasy novel when simplicity is not something you find much even in our mundane world.

farfromfearless · Dec 22, 2006

I don't think there is anything wrong for using basic nouns, but I think that you should try to find one that better describes the subject or object. A "Recorder" can be interpreted in different ways, a "Scribe" is limited to fewer interpretations.

PeeDee · Dec 22, 2006

I could hug you, Vaxil. Yes, use simple words. Please, God, use simple words!

This has less to do with my "eschew surplusage/objuscation" business and more to do with my perpetual annoyance at D'Artanguan saving Laxxii'l from the Evil Wartlogo who has risen up out of the Land Beyond The Mountains and will smote Whosville if Hor'ton doesn't H'atch the Eg'g.

rugcat · Dec 22, 2006

In all literary endeavors, the auspicious employment of unembellished verbiage will provide the cornerstone for consummate achievement.

Jamesaritchie · Dec 22, 2006

Simple

I like simple words, as long as they're the best word for the job. I know "recorder" can be someone who keeps records, but for me, "recorder" conjures mental images of mechanical devices that uses magnetic tape, or the little wooden instrument that looks something like a flute. We had to learn how to play the recorder in grade school, and I hated it.

But I do think "scribe" is a simpler word than "recorder" in every way. It doesn't have nearly as many meanings, for one thing.

"Thought-speak" is certainly simple, but it's also creative and unambiguous.

Having said this, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with using "recorder," but perhaps this is a case where you need to come up with your own word or phrase, such as "thought-speak."

PeeDee · Dec 22, 2006

As long as it doesn't sound contrived. If you want to do telepathy but instead do "Mind-touching." or something....will it be hoaky? Will it be embarassing to read out loud?

For fantasy, I point to Terry Pratchett as an example of how to do it. Mostly, he doesn't use strange words, and I enjoy his books enormously, whereas my above example of things-with-apostrophes in it tends to shut me down quickly.

I don't like to muck about. I like to know who the characters are so I can care about them properly, I like to know where they are, and mostly I dont' want to have it deathly complicated, because what I want is to enjoy the story and care about it.

Using Simple Words

Vaxil

Silver King

Megalops Erectus

JasonChirevas

Simon Woodhouse

blacbird

Birol

Around and About

Oliveman

Zolah

Over the hills and far away

Tracy

Saundra Julian

A work in progress

Willowmound

Lightly salted

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

Higgins

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

engmajor2005

Doug Johnson

Vaxil

MidnightMuse

Midnight Reading

Elektra

Don't Call Me Sweetheart

Higgins

farfromfearless

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

Jamesaritchie

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?