Is this a song or a poem?

DreamWorks · Dec 17, 2006

I feel the meter and structre lends itself to both mediums, but the content lends itself more to poetry - true/ false? Oh yes, and, do you like it?

pale smooth ivory skin
white teeth flashy grin
I sold my soul to not grow old
but my flesh is wearing thin

tan smooth silken cream
who will wake me from my dream?
stear me clearer from the mirror,
or I'll break it with my steam

bare as a babies sunkissed bottom
hair as fair as the leaves in autumn
my nose, a rose, was once a crow's
now I have a different problem

bless me father i'm a sinner
sold my soul to be a winner
Now I'm old and cold and sold
and my skin is wearing thinner

davids · Dec 18, 2006

I think it is a sweet write-fits both mediums and would be interested to hear/know what the music would sound like-style/punk/rick/reggae/opera/blues/jazz/spiritual-and all that-just not chestnuts roasting and all that crap!

DreamWorks · Dec 19, 2006

Thank you davids. You know, sometimes it is so important to hear a small word of encouragement. I also had no idea what this should sound like, but getting your response inspired me to look into it. Anyway your use of the word "sweet" totally pushed me in the write direction, inspiring me to write a melody that I feel fits that description. Even though the song itself is somewhat bitter and pained, the sweetness of the words and melody do alot to give a good counter to it.

The minute I figure out how to compress musical files I will link you to my music because nobody except my parents, and my music theory teacher has ever heard anything I have written (haven't been at it for very long) and I would really love to get some outside feedback.

davids · Dec 19, 2006

Dreamworks-you are entirely welcome-my pleasure indeed. You ought to take the chance and let folks hear your musical heart-trust me-and I was just kidding about the chestnuts roasting open fire thing-it is just that Kenny G and co. on every loud-speaker in every public place I am forced to enter at this most merry time of year-well-the repetition is annoying my classically trained mane-let us hear some of the music-Dave

DreamWorks · Dec 19, 2006

how awesome! my first request! ok, now I will get a move on... thank you again

janetbellinger · Dec 19, 2006

Song. Songs always rhyme. It's good. Meter or whatever it's called does lend itself to music.

DreamWorks said:
I feel the meter and structre lends itself to both mediums, but the content lends itself more to poetry - true/ false? Oh yes, and, do you like it?

pale smooth ivory skin
white teeth flashy grin
I sold my soul to not grow old
but my flesh is wearing thin

tan smooth silken cream
who will wake me from my dream?
stear me clearer from the mirror,
or I'll break it with my steam

bare as a babies sunkissed bottom
hair as fair as the leaves in autumn
my nose, a rose, was once a crow's
now I have a different problem

bless me father i'm a sinner
sold my soul to be a winner
Now I'm old and cold and sold
and my skin is wearing thinner

DreamWorks · Dec 19, 2006

Thanks alot Janet! do you think lyrics wise, this song works as well without the additional "was once a crow's"
I'm having a little trouble fitting it into the music. I can do it, no problem, but i am wondering if it is adding or not neccessarily cause it slows me down just a tad

moblues · Dec 19, 2006

Hi DW. Very bitterweet. I like this.

I see why crow's is giving you a problem:

my nose, a rose, was once a crow's

This is backwards. Having a nose like a crow's hints at being old. While I believe that having a nose like a rose is probably a reference to rosacea, it has the opposite effect.

Mike

Puma · Dec 19, 2006

Hi Dreamworks - Songs used to always be poems - just set to a melody (but with definite meter and rhyming pattern). As I read this I could hear the melody - especially in the third stanza - what I heard was more of a crooner type (Sinatra - that vintage) with a snap finger type of beat. Try working on your meter to make the lines in each stanza consistent with the other stanzas and (even though I know you like using multiple rhyming words in the same line) try doing some variations on your lines with internal rhymes and also your end rhymes. Examples:

Now I'm old and cold and sold Now I'm old and growing cold
and my skin is wearing thinner This last line would be best if it were the same as the last line in your first stanza which was But my flesh is wearing thin. My suggestion - use flesh again in this last line and go to thinner in the first stanza (you can do it by changing your second line to end as grinner - White, bright teeth and flashy grinner.

On your nose, rose, crow's line - may be best to say now a crow's but you also need to do something with the last line in that stanza (what you have doesn't make the best sense).

Within the last month or so someone did post the score of a piece of music in Other in Share Your Work. Unfortunately I was the only one brave enough to comment. But - that is an option for a way to get it looked at. Keep the brain cells moving - you are making tremendous strides. Puma

DreamWorks · Dec 19, 2006

moblues said:
This a backwards. Having a nose like a crow's hints at being old. While I believe that having a nose like a rose is probably a reference to rosacea, it has the opposite effect.

Thanks Mike

Rosacea is a skin disease! No its not a reference to that... I'm going to have to come up with a better line for this one fast!!

Puma thank for your amazing suggestions, I am yet to really take them in so I will respond to them shortly

DreamWorks · Dec 19, 2006

Oh my gosh - is it as good if I "go Disney" and call it - "song of the evil Queen?"

Pale, smooth, ivory skin...
Snow white - flashier grin.
I sold my soul to not grow old,
Yet, my flesh is wearing thin.

Hair as soft as silky cream...
who will wake me from this dream?
Steer me clearer from the mirror!
Or I'll break it with my steam.

Cold as an infants bare bottom,
Older than fair leaves in autumn,
I’ll steal, while she’ll...
Oh so sweetly kill my dreams.

Bless me father, I’m a sinner.
sold my soul to win!
Now I’m cold and sober...
and my flesh is wearing thin.

***

poetinahat · Dec 19, 2006

I like it as a poem; whether it's a good song as well, I feel I'm a poor judge. The thing is that, when I read song lyrics, I see the space that's left for music - fills, bridges, whatnot - and the stretching of lines over the song's rhythm.

I wonder how the lyricists write their words around them. I'd love to be able to do that, but it's something I don't understand right now.

So, DW, in a nutshell, I like it, and I'd love to hear it as a song, but I have difficulty picturing it without the tune. Count me in as request #2.

DreamWorks · Dec 19, 2006

Hey poetinahat... Great to see you here! when you said you liked this, were you referring to the original post or the newer version (big thanks to Puma)

moblues · Dec 19, 2006

DW, keep the original with a changing of the line with crow's. Your second version is drifting away from your base. Stay there. It works.

Pleasant dreams.

Mike

DreamWorks · Dec 19, 2006

OK Mike. Am trying out different suggestions to see what works best. Here's your version

Pale, smooth, ivory skin
white teeth flashy grin
I sold my soul to not grow old
But my skin is wearing thin

Flesh soft as silky cream
who will wake me from my dream?
Steer me clearer from the mirror
Or I'll break it with my steam

Bare as a cold baby’s bottom
Hair like the fair leaves of autumn
I sealed that deal
And he hasn’t forgotten

bless me father, I’m a sinner
sold my soul to win.
Now I’m cold and sober
and my flesh is wearing thin

Puma · Dec 20, 2006

Dreamworks - If this were a song, what you've got are the lyrics and usually, the tune for the lyrics is the same for every verse (maybe slightly different key but pretty much the same) (and you can put some plain instrumental in between verses). Now this may sound hokey, but sound out your lyrics in just a da-da-da dah type of way and look for places where your rhythm is off. I think that's part of the problem with your re-write (actually, regardless of whether it's a song or a poem). And realize - when people do write actual songs there are frequently many versions before it's just right. Puma

DreamWorks · Dec 20, 2006

Thanks again Puma, for your help. How is this, rhythm wise?
look one post down

DreamWorks · Dec 21, 2006

pale smooth ivory skin
white teeth flashy grin
I sold my soul to not grow old
but my skin is wearing thin

Flesh soft as milky cream
Who will wake me from my dream?
Steer me clearer from the mirror
Or I'll break it with my steam

Silk skin’s baby bottom
Hair as fair as leaves in autumn
These lies my eyes
Never seem to have forgotten

bless me father I’m a sinner
sold my soul to win
now i'm growing colder
for this flesh of mine is thin

Jim Colyer · Jan 17, 2007

It is a poem, too impressionistic to be a song. Song lyrics are more conversational.

Martin Hall-Kenny · Jan 22, 2007

Jim... ouch!
Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, the Beatles and a host of others might give you an argument about impressionism. Song lyrics might be conversational, if you are conversing. They don't have to be. If you're telling a story for example- great person for that is Chris DeBurgh. Songs are not (IMO) simply poems set to music. That would be... Poems Set To Music. There is a rational and reasonable argument that the evolution of 'songs' as a distinct medium of communication happened due to the illiteracy of peasants. In order to teach, monks etc used music to aid memory. Similarly with travellers passing on news from one village to another or criers detailing long lists of begats.
I have put this simplistically but just because a lyric is poetical doesn't mean its a poem and similarly, there are actually few poems that would make good songs.

pink lily · Jan 22, 2007

Jim Colyer said:
It is a poem, too impressionistic to be a song. Song lyrics are more conversational.

I disagree. If the meter is right, and some music can be written to fit the lyrics, then it can be a song. This piece just so happens to read fine as a poem. A talented musician could be inspired to write music for it.

I think many poems can be songs, but many songs need to be seriously edited in order to become poems.

So... this is a poem, but could also be a song. Whether or not it's "impressionistic" makes no difference.

DreamWorks · Jan 23, 2007

check out the 2nd song on this link and you can hear a rough version of this song (to the original lyrics)

Martin Hall-Kenny · Jan 23, 2007

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
This is a song. Just listened to it! Its not quite how I imagined it and there are a number of things you could do to enhance it BUT its definately getting there. A song is like a story and there's more story here than you're telling.

DreamWorks · Jan 23, 2007

Wow, thank you so much for taking the time! I really appreciate it. I would be thrilled to hear any specific suggestions you have to offer, but I already think I know what you mean about the telling of the story, so I will take that on and again, thank you

I gave you a rep point btw, if you know what those are yet

Martin Hall-Kenny · Jan 24, 2007

Uh... no. What are they?

Is this a song or a poem?

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