process / duration required to write a 'good one'?

ATP · Dec 15, 2006

[In this instance, I really didn't know what keywords to use to search the forum archives - please merge with another relevant thread if needs be]

Previously, we talked about the duration from finished script to having the film's wrap up for production. Ten years was not uncommon for many films, and up to 20 years for some of the 'greats'.

As a trade/business journalist, with an interest in film, I would like to get some idea of how long the writer takes to complete a 'good' script. I realise that this is both like asking how long is a piece of string, and the inherent subjectivism of 'good' (see thread 'Hollywood scripts ain't good').

Nevertheless, I would like to address this question to the forum members.
Anyone willing to begin...?

Bad Penny · Dec 15, 2006

I'm currently in my third year of researching/developing a script that probably won't be finished for another two years at least. But when it is I know it'll be good, or at least far above average. I like the challenge of working out complex stories and gags and doing something the right way isn't accomplished overnight, though you will get to a point where it does come easier and faster like any creative skill you begin to master.

Most scripts are simple and written relatively fast. Mike Myers reportedly knocked off Austin Powers in three weeks, ditto Randall Wallace with Pearl Harbor. And it shows. But they can get away with it. Peruse Triggerstreet where 90% of scripts by amateur writers there aren't good enough because you can tell they didn't hone their concepts to their full potential, or wrote odd stories that would never make it in front of a camera. Many writers there have up to ten or more scripts posted so you know they're not exactly thinking through an idea from every angle before they write it.

dpaterso · Dec 15, 2006

Hmm. I'm thinking that these "greats" that took 10-20 years to produce must have been made despite numerous production delays such as changing directors, studio re-think, or whatever factors slowed filming up. Did any director in the history of cinema ever stand up and state, "I am going to take 20 years to make this film, and as a result it will be the greatest film ever made!"? What would a studio or private investors would think about that? I'm guessing not much. Did the delays somehow make these films better than they would have been without the delays? How? And can this be proved? Nah, 'course not.

Yeah, those so-called "writers" who knock off a first pass in three weeks instead of taking 5 years like a real writer would, make me sick. Likewise "writers" with more than one script under their belt. Amateurs!

...Yep, being sarcastic. If the story works, why shouldn't a shorter writing period not only be possible, but acceptable? Last I heard, any writer who can produce quality material fast isn't sneered at. Fact is, everyone writes at their own rate, and in their own way. Of course, I'm arguing this because I just wrote a first pass script in 21 days. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing! Next script might take 21 weeks, who knows? Or indeed 5 years.

There is no single correct answer, which makes me wonder if the question is even valid. Or, I could be wrong on all counts. Tho' I suspect not.

-Derek

Joe Calabrese · Dec 15, 2006

My personal belief is that:

A writer should be able to come up with an idea and do research on the subject (enough to write the story, not become an expert in the field) and pump out a first draft (100-110 pages) in a month or so. Then do rewrites for no more than 6 months.

A writer should be able to write a minimum of 2 specs a year.

A writer should be able to write more than one project at a time, to the point were Monday one, Tue, the other, etc... and not get confused and muddled.

This is a realistic scenario that I feel will prepare you for the real world when a producer wants a full rewrite in three weeks or the studio will shut them down, or rewrite three pages of dialog by tomorrow morning (and it's 9pm now) or the actor walks off the set, or the studio wants Miss "latest star to adopt a third world baby" Smith to play the lead, so can you change your lead from a man to a women by next week... and etc...

Time is money in Hollywood and the writer can't take his sweet old time.

Now sure, every writer should have their pet project(s) that they spend a few years meticulously researching and writing and fine tuning to a bright polish, but don't get into the habit of writing everything that way and don't make everything you write become one of those pet projects. Keep writing-- anything and everything-- just keep writing.

Some you will love and some you will love to finish so you can move on...

Peace and Happy Holidays.

tourdeforce · Dec 15, 2006

Bad Penny said:
Many writers there have up to ten or more scripts posted so you know they're not exactly thinking through an idea from every angle before they write it.

I am amazed at how prolific some writers are on Zoe and TS, seemingly pumping out a script every few weeks. However, they are virtually unreadable.

Bad Penny · Dec 15, 2006

dpaterso said:
...Yep, being sarcastic. If the story works, why shouldn't a shorter writing period not only be possible, but acceptable? Last I heard, any writer who can produce quality material fast isn't sneered at. Fact is, everyone writes at their own rate, and in their own way. Of course, I'm arguing this because I just wrote a first pass script in 21 days. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing! Next script might take 21 weeks, who knows? Or indeed 5 years.

story is one thing. I like to go beyond that and come up with the best set pieces and dialogue possible. That takes thought. Deep thought. And you have to allow time for the hospital stays.

billythrilly7th · Dec 15, 2006

A moment of inspiration for an idea.
A week or so to get a general outline.
Four to Six weeks to pump out a first draft or scratch draft as I like to call it.
Another 2-3 months of rewriting.

Readable decent draft.

Then as time progresses, a nip here a tuck there, a few notes, a few changes, and slowly it keeps getting better and better.

But generally speaking, I think you can write 2-3 well written screenplays a year if you have the talent and work ethic.

Thank you.

winter · Dec 15, 2006

I'm with bad penny on this. Nothing memorable gets pumped out in a matter of weeks.

Comedy rolls off the toungue a bit faster. But story benefits from lollygaging.
Although five years seems a bit long.

Still, anything less than two years is cheap entertainment.

dpaterso · Dec 15, 2006

Do feel free to express your opinions by all means.

But be aware they carry no more weight than anyone else's opinions. We're all wired differently. I just can't think or type that slow.

-Derek

Bad Penny · Dec 15, 2006

dpaterso said:
Do feel free to express your opinions by all means. But be aware they carry no more weight than anyone else's opinions. We're all wired differently. I just can't think or type that slow.

-Derek

All roads lead to scotland

Joe Calabrese · Dec 15, 2006

Opinons abound!

We can all agree that Paul Haggis' scripts are not cheap entertainment, since they win oscars and receive critical acclaim.

In an interview, he said he wrote Million Dollar Baby in nine months (from book option to shooting script)

And in another interview, he proclaimed that he woke up one morning around 2 am, started writing and by morning had all the stories mapped out and essentially outlined for Crash. I believe he had a shooting script in less than six months.

But that's him (and many more who depend on a paycheck if you check)...

Go ahead and pick your pet projects and take your time, but do other things too and quickly.

But please, never, ever tell a producer or agent it took you years, otherwise (if you sell that script) you won't be on for the rewrites and you may not get calls for work for being known as a slow poke.

nielsty · Dec 15, 2006

Well, in my experience a story can also get too complex if you work on it for years. It's one thing if a production company tells you to rewrite it - it's another thing if you keep it for yourself for such a long time.

Joe Calabrese · Dec 15, 2006

Did you hear the story about the woodworker who wanted the tabletop he made so refined, and silky smooth that he sanded it with the finest grit sandpaper for five years.

Probably not-- because he makes toothpicks now.

or in my best Confucius impersonation...

"Given enough time, even the smallest and most gentle of streams can erode mountains."

Bad Penny · Dec 15, 2006

nielsty said:
Well, in my experience a story can also get too complex if you work on it for years. It's one thing if a production company tells you to rewrite it - it's another thing if you keep it for yourself for such a long time.

bear in mind, i don't have time to write 8 hours a day, and I have 3 other ideas I'm working on as well. And it's a comedy based on film noir/espionage/ thriller and screwball comedy conventions. I've seen enough crappy spoofs/satires/tributes along these lines that were slapped together overnight by people not as in touch with what they were spoofing/satirizing/paying tribute to as they thought they were. This approach, to me, is why say Raiders of the Lost Ark is a masterpiece and Firewalker is not

xhouseboy · Dec 15, 2006

Paul Schrader claims to have written Taxi Driver in a fortnight.

Bad Penny · Dec 15, 2006

Joe Calabrese said:
Did you hear the story about the woodworker who wanted the tabletop he made so refined, and silky smooth that he sanded it with the finest grit sandpaper for five years.

Probably not-- because he makes toothpicks now.

or in my best Confucius impersonation...

"Given enough time, even the smallest and most gentle of streams can erode mountains."

In my best Kato impersonation...

"Only morons sand table tops for five years, but for screenwriters 5 years can only improve shi*tty scripts"

Bad Penny · Dec 15, 2006

xhouseboy said:
Paul Schrader claims to have written Taxi Driver in a fortnight.

I hated Taxi Driver

xhouseboy · Dec 15, 2006

Bad Penny said:
I hated Taxi Driver

I loved it.

Bad Penny · Dec 15, 2006

xhouseboy said:
I loved it.

that's what makes freedom great

Joe Calabrese · Dec 15, 2006

I hated that I liked hating my liking of it

Joe Calabrese · Dec 15, 2006

Bad Penny said:
"Only morons sand table tops for five years, but for screenwriters 5 years can only improve shi*tty scripts"

What kind of person would waste almost 7% of their entire life for the slim possibility of selling said masterpiece.

Bad Penny · Dec 15, 2006

Joe Calabrese said:
What kind of person would waste almost 7% of their entire life for the slim possibility of selling said masterpiece.

A slightly less optimistic person than the one who, after wasting 7% of their entire life ends up using the 10 unsold scripts they wrote to start a bonfire

billythrilly7th · Dec 15, 2006

There's no right or wrong.

Some people spend five years and use that script for a bonfire.

Some people spend five months and make six figures.

Some people spend five years and win an Academy award.

Some people spend five months and get laughed at.

Thank you.

winter · Dec 15, 2006

Oh baloney. pfff, oscars and academy awards. Writers death.

And I don't know why they hate it so much when writers take their time to write well.

But I also can't understand how they can walk this Earth calling themselves writers and yet have nothing to say.
Showbiz.

And Taxi driver was turned into something by it's filmmaker, and possibly even more so, it's cast.

Anyway, ultimately, I guess it comes down to how you take pleasure in your craft.

jonpiper · Dec 15, 2006

Whatever we do, I think we run the risk of overworking the piece. When we edit and rewrite our spec script forever, we can squeeze all the juice, all the magic out of it.

From what I understand about the business, a spec script never goes into production as is -- no matter how polished we think it is.

process / duration required to write a 'good one'?

On avarage, how long for you to write one (from idea to ready to show to a producer)

less than three months

3 to 6 months

6 months to a year

1 to 5 years

5+ years

ATP

What happened to my LIFE?!

Bad Penny

dpaterso

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

Joe Calabrese

tourdeforce

Bad Penny

billythrilly7th

winter

dpaterso

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

Bad Penny

Joe Calabrese

nielsty

I write my own stunts

Joe Calabrese

Bad Penny

xhouseboy

In the Yellow Woods

Bad Penny

Bad Penny

xhouseboy

In the Yellow Woods

Bad Penny

Joe Calabrese

Joe Calabrese

Bad Penny

billythrilly7th

winter

jonpiper