Posting for critique: When?

poetinahat · Dec 14, 2006

As poets, how do you use the Poetry Critique board?

Do you...
- post a first draft and use comments to shape it?
- polish as much as you can, then use feedback for final revision or to decide whether to submit it?
- just type out whatever comes into your head, with no intention of revision?
- put up works you've written long ago to see how they're received today?
- other?

I'm sure everyone's different approaches reflect their general approaches to writing poetry; some revise fastidiously, while others let their ideas flow uninhibited and unedited.

I think that understanding each other's methods will help us receive their works better and offer feedback that's fitting.

poetinahat · Dec 14, 2006

Me?
I usually post when I think it's done, or nearly so. If it's not -- and I've only posted one poem I knew was a long way from being done -- I identify it as a WIP. That, I believe, lets people know that it's up for high-level critique.

Anything I post without calling it a WIP is up for whatever feedback people are inclined to offer.

Perks · Dec 14, 2006

I'm the same way, but I have changed elements when critters have had points that just resonated.

A. Hamilton · Dec 14, 2006

The couple of times (or maybe just once) that I've posted a piece and labled it WIP, the feedback actually caused me to lose interest in the poem. Not that the feedback was bad,(there's no such thing!) but because the reception of the piece was so far away from my intention. (Without going back to look, the one that comes to mind is 'Old Dog' )
But usually I do my first and second run on the piece, you know, the rush when you first write a piece and then the initial revision, and sometimes tweak it a little more and usually post it at that point. I do this as a way to let it sit and get a feel for how it will be received. I do it with pieces I don't post as well. Step away from them for a bit and return later. Gives me a fresh perspective.
Once in a while I will post and ask for specific feedback.

MargueriteMing · Dec 14, 2006

Well, my poems generally have a narrow focus. I get inspired, and zap, I write it down. So, I generally don't write unless something really jumps up and grabs my attention.

Usually the idea arrives pretty well defined, and my task is more to capture it. Often it comes with language all set. I write it down fast, and I get it or I don't. Occasionally I don't have all the aspects clear of what I'm writing about, either the poem is incomplete, and later I add to it, or a turn of phrase doesn't quite capture the essence I was going for. But generally it's a pretty quick process, and I post.

I've only recently taken up creative writing, I've posted 3 poems and 1 short story. Of the 3 poems I've written, I added a stanza to one, added some punctionation and changed a couple words by way of revision, so I do do some revising after getting input, but it's generally pretty focused.

Angelinity · Dec 14, 2006

personally, i think a poem's status as WIP or finished is as subjective as a poet's perspective. because we all have different voices and writing styles, what may seem a WIP in one's opinion is finished work in another's.

as far as i'm concerned, most of my poems could use another go -- there's nearly no end to the possibility of tightening something up. from hundreds of poems i've written in only the past three or four months, only one or two i consider 'finished' - and even those i question at times.

so i guess my answer is: all of mine are WIPs, and this includes poems, prose, articles, essays... each moment of experiencing brings me a slightly new perspective which changes the way i read old work. it is why i value most input from fellow writers -- their perspectives / takes can enrich me and (hopefully) my work.

wyzguy · Dec 15, 2006

I'm still too new to be sure of the quality and strength of my poems. So I polish as much as I can and then post, hoping someone will be kind enough to lend some of their wisdom.

Norman D Gutter · Dec 15, 2006

I ususally only post a poem once I can't see anything else to change in it. Then I post for feedback. Being new to this board, I have a fair number of poems that have been workshopped elsewhere that I might post here for new eyes and minds to see. I almost always know there are still flaws in the poems, but can't work them out. The critters usually comment on the same things I already know are flaws, and sometimes come up with excellent suggestions for improvement. However, since I've already extensively gone over and revised my poems many times before they've been posted, I don't generally make many changes.

I rarely send poems for publication, beacause I barely have time for writing, let alone research into markets.

NDG

kdnxdr · Dec 16, 2006

hmmmmmmmmmmm..........................

I have to think this out because I do original composition on the AW board.

However, some concepts germinate with me for awhile. When I finally do get to the point where I want to commit them (write), I get what I can out (of me). Then, I work with specific words, usually using my dictionary.

And I'll play with certain sounds sometimes, like alliteration, rhyming (maybe) and try to smooth out the flow.

Then, I release the little bugger just to see how it flies. Sometimes, I revise according to the much appreciated critiques that I receive. Often, I let it sit and age awhile.

I have been going through a process of going back and copying the original post and all critiques into a Word document where everything gets worked over. My intention is to stop and collect, at some point, what I am most satisfied with and do something with it like stick into a book format using LuLu and go from there. At least, that's the plan at this point.

Collin · Dec 17, 2006

At first, I posted some stuff just to see how it would be received, and the kind of feedback I'd get -- sort of sticking my toe in the water. I've also dusted off an old one, and may do a little more of that.

The suggestions I've gotten have been quite helpful -- on one work in particular, the feedback really tightened it up, and it's gone from one I kind of liked to one I think I love -- I still need to do a little tweaking.

I am finding that my poetry is evolving somewhat -- hopefully in a positive direction. I still go back to stuff and edit and rewrite a lot!

I'd love to finish a piece someday, and say "This is done. I can't do another thing to it to make it better." That hasn't happened yet.

Collin

mommysangelinheaven · Jun 2, 2011

For me it is very rare I will edit a poem. I typically write down my thoughts, reread it at that point to see if I still like the flow, and then it is done. However sometimes, just depends on the poem, I will do several edits of it.

kborsden · Jun 2, 2011

I don't believe anything I write is ever finished - although my word choice and phrase is the result of thorough and relentless re-writing, precise and sometimes obsessive selection, cutting and pruning - and at times I may be very attached to what I post in the form it is posted - there is room for suggestion, even if I don't act on that supposition, the feedback on change and improvements may inspire rework or new work - fresh creativity, design or output.

I will ask for specific types of comments and ideas where necessary, and will indicate exact areas where I feel something is lacking - but generally I post for candid and open feedback in whatever form may be replied.

Blarg · Jun 2, 2011

I don't think of the first draft the way many people tell me they do. I have generally already fussed over it quite a bit before I would consider it a "draft" proper. Before that, I consider it ... what ... a mess?

When I post stuff in the crit section, in my mind it may yet have a long way to go. But you're not going to find spelling errors or condoms randomly out of place. You are going to hopefully at least be able to see what I'm going toward clearly. Even if it's only a first draft, and even if it's terrible, it's not going to be a shart. I keep my dirty underwear to myself.

Steppe · Jun 2, 2011

"A poem is never finished, only abandonded".
I will work on a poem for quite some time in folder, sometimes rewriting several times, sometimes just letting it go.

When I feel I want comment, I'll post for critique, then send it back to folder for yet more work. I never feel the poem is done.

Once in a while I will post an old poem. Generally it's because I have a purpose for the poem. I almost always have rewrote and it is different from the one posted to AW.

poetinahat · Jun 2, 2011

Someone told me a while back that 'perfect' is the enemy of 'finished'. I'd rather have written one perfect (or very good) poem than a thousand 'finished' poems.

My day job is full of 'finished' things. Writing poems gets me away from that.

I'm happy to call a poem finished, but I'm also happy to reverse my decision.

Sometimes it takes me a long, long time - even years - to act on the critiques I get. That's part of the process. I do feel like I'll get get better feedback - and more willing critics - if I try to give them something worth their time, something I've made as good as I can up to a point. Putting up slapdash work for crit is, to me, a waste of everyone's time. It's not fair, edifying, or fulfilling to ask critics to write my poem for me.

Blarg · Jun 2, 2011

That's a very good point that seems to go over a lot of people's heads. Even after it has been mentioned.

SinK · Jun 19, 2011

I tend to wait till I can no longer see things that need improving then put it up but normally the poem isn't really the point. I'm only just starting out in poetry so the main thing I'm looking for when I get critiques is general principles and ideas all criticism is good but if I can apply it to the next poem I write as well as the one being critiqued then so much the better.

@poetinahat: I think that quote "The perfect is the enemy of the good" was actually meant as a motivator. You can faff around perfecting things which will never be perfect or you can get them good and move on.

I think its probably handy to take your view in attitude while adopting the other in practice. I guess the nice thing about a poem is that it allows that distinction since it is no effort at all to change words once inspiration or incisive criticism has struck.

kdnxdr · Jun 19, 2011

My dearest poetnhat, you know how tremendously I love you, so I know you'll allow me this tiny defense.

I so agree with everything you've said, however, I feel so compassionate, towards myself and all the other timids, buggers and just plain nitwits, that I have to say I don't think it's ever wasting anyone's time to 'lay out your poem'. I guess I just feel that poetry is such a layered and delicate psychology that, as readers, we never really know the intent of someone's poemy 'right off the bat'. Sometimes, they are a desperate cry for help, or someone calling out because they are lost in the labrynth. "helping someone write their poem" is always ugly but it's the "crit" that's a sacred and noble virtue within the realm of poetry. We never really know when we've helped someone find the 'next rung up the ladder'.

xoxo profusely

kid

poetinahat · Jun 20, 2011

Kid and SinK, I greatly appreciate what you say, and really, I think we're on the same page.

I'm right with you on the point that the point of critique is to improve - not just the poem, but the poet's skill. And, yes, we all get to points where we know it's not just perfect, but we're stuck. That's a perfect time to post for crit.

What I strenuously object to is being asked to provide feedback on poems where the poster is essentially saying, "I just poured this out. Try to find a poem in it for me." I'm not interested in critiquing data dumps, except to remind people that it takes work to help the reader see what we're feeling. The words don't usually come out perfectly the first time, no matter how much we feel like they did.

However, to paraphrase the lovely Kid: When the poet's said, "I'm trying to write this - please help!", that is what we're here for. And, if we do it with an open mind and a full heart, we get better as poets when we give feedback ourselves.

Improvisational poetry can be beautiful - just check out any of the poetry games - Take A Snapshot, the picture prompts, etc. There are wonderful poems in those threads.

But, again, if the feedback isn't going to result in any changes to the poem or the creative process, maybe the feedback should be called a review; I consider a critique to be a learning tool.

Posting for critique: When?

poetinahat

Numbers are beautiful

poetinahat

Numbers are beautiful

Perks

delicate #!&@*#! flower

A. Hamilton

here for a minute...catch me?

MargueriteMing

Angelinity

absent

wyzguy

Coprocephalic, at times.

Norman D Gutter

Engineer Sonneteer

kdnxdr

One of the most important people in the world

Collin

mommysangelinheaven

Live Life to the Fullest

kborsden

Has a few recurring issues

Blarg

Steppe

...

poetinahat

Numbers are beautiful

Blarg

SinK

practical experience, FTW

kdnxdr

One of the most important people in the world

poetinahat

Numbers are beautiful