How many rejections does it take????

haefner919 · Dec 11, 2006

Before you take your project and put it on the back burner permanently?

Novel #1 is done, revised several times, spell checked, grammar checked, and is currently getting opinions from trusted friends. I have sent out queries to agents and recieved all rejections so far....only 1 asked to see more of the MS, but ultimately declined.

I have stopped trying to make the project better, as I really don't know how to make it better, and opted to work on a new novel while I wait to hear from more agents.

So, how many queries do you send out? How many rejections before it's safe to say the work really isn't good enough?

And to answer the question, I've sent out 43 queries and have gotten 20 rejections so far.

Simon Woodhouse · Dec 11, 2006

When I was querying my first novel, my plan was to keep going until I couldn't find any more agents/publishers to send it to. In the end I found a publisher through a contact I'd made in a Yahoo writers group.

J.S Greer · Dec 11, 2006

I would say move on and let it be for now.

Did the rejections have any personal feedback, or were they generic letters?

Work on your new piece, and come back to your finished MS later. Take in the feedback it has recieved, from all of the sources, and see if there is something you can do to make it better.

You might want to post a bit of it her ein the share your work forum for feedback too.

haefner919 · Dec 11, 2006

All letters were form letters except for two and neither of those gave any feedback what so ever....just said the work was not right for them.

aka eraser · Dec 11, 2006

If you haven't already, it might be wise to post your query in Share Your Work. It may not be doing its job.

haefner919 · Dec 11, 2006

Thanks...I will do that. I am thinking that might be the problem (or at least one fo them). I've read tons on query writing, but somehow I'm just not getting the hang of it.....

J.S Greer · Dec 11, 2006

aka eraser said:
If you haven't already, it might be wise to post your query in Share Your Work. It may not be doing its job.

Thats a good idea too. Query letters may be more important than the MS in some ways.

Its the suit you wear to the interview basically, and first impressions count a lot.

I could be totally missing the mark though :tongue

Julie Worth · Dec 11, 2006

How many rejections does it take?

It depends on the genre, of course, but 200 hundred agents might be interested. And it takes an average of ten or so full reads to generate an offer. So, if you're not getting one full read per 20 queries, best retool your query before you run out of agents.

If you do run out of agents, rename your book, rewrite your query so that it sounds entirely different (making sure it has a hook this time!), and start all over again.

After several hundred rejections, the sharp pain of individual rejections passes, replaced by a chronic malaise. You suspect that your self worth is irreversibly damaged. It's about then that you turn to every writer's friend: alcohol.

C.bronco · Dec 11, 2006

Dr. Seuss had his first book rejected by 27 publishers (they accepted unsolicted then) before he got published. You only have 20 rejections? That's it?
I agree with the rework your query, synopsis, first three chapters advice.

WildScribe · Dec 11, 2006

J.S Greer said:
Thats a good idea too. Query letters may be more important than the MS in some ways.

Its the suit you wear to the interview basically, and first impressions count a lot.

I could be totally missing the mark though

Great way to put that.

J.S Greer · Dec 11, 2006

C.bronco said:
Dr. Seuss had his first book rejected by 27 publishers (they accepted unsolicted then) before he got published. You only have 20 rejections? That's it?
I agree with the rework your query, synopsis, first three chapters advice.

Good advice, but wouldnt you want the rest of the chapters to be as spot on as the first three? I know the answer is yes, but im just saying that rejection can come at chapter four just as easily.

Maybe they would be willing to work with you though having shown promise with the first three...

Zolah · Dec 11, 2006

C.bronco said:
Dr. Seuss had his first book rejected by 27 publishers (they accepted unsolicted then) before he got published. You only have 20 rejections? That's it?
I agree with the rework your query, synopsis, first three chapters advice.

What an amazing coincidence! I too was rejected 27 times on my first book! Although...it's still not published...Hmmm.

Sassenach · Dec 11, 2006

Haefner:

I read your query letter in SYW and that might be what's causing you problems.

UrsusMinor · Dec 11, 2006

Julie Worth said:
And it takes an average of ten or so full reads to generate an offer.

On the novel that landed me an agent, I got offers with my first full reads...but getting the requests for the ms. involved a lot of rejections!

The query letter may be a problem. In fact, thought I will probably be flamed for saying this, it may be an insurmountable problem, since a) the skills in writing a gripping query letter are different from those involved in writing a novel, and b) many novels simply don't 'query' well.

I met a writer (she works in advertising, by the way) who probably gets one manuscript request for every two queries she sends out. I doubt that she will ever be represented, because she can't write a novel to save her life. But, boy, can she write exciting queries!

I've heard one too many agents say things like, "Why should we assume you can write a gripping work of fiction if you can't write a compelling query letter?"

This reasoning is identical to: Why should we assume Yo-Yo Ma can play the cello if he can't even play the harmonica?

Some agents (Miss Snark is one) like to see opening pages because they know it is all about the writing--the writing in the novel.

Consider attending a conference where editors or agents do 'advance reads.' This may give you a clue as to whether your opening pages are ready for prime time.

UrsusMinor · Dec 11, 2006

I do digress, don't I?

Back to your original question: There is a big difference between putting something on the back burner "permanently" and setting it aside as something to come back to in a year or two (or five).

Screenwriters (I know more than a few) don't view unsold scripts as smelly failures to be jettisoned, but rather as resources. Screenwriters have the concept of a 'trunk' where unsold scripts are stored for the future. A positive Hollywood rejection often runs, "Great script, but can't use it right now. I'd love to see what else you have in your trunk, though..."

My fourth novel was the first one to sell. I expect to publish the first three some day. But now that they've had time to age in the trunk, I see quite a few things I'd do differently...

So: Maybe your problem is your query. Maybe your novel simply isn't up to snuff. Or maybe you need to put your novel in the trunk and come back much later.

But "permanently" is going a bit far.

janetbellinger · Dec 11, 2006

It depends how stubborn you are. I'm pretty tenacious and I don't give up easily.

Ken Schneider · Dec 11, 2006

Rejections from an agent, or a publisher?

I'd send my ms to as many publishers or agents as you can stand.
If it is your first novel, you have a long road ahead.

It takes ten years as an average for a writer to be good enough at their craft to be published.

Plan to start having really good results after you've written a million words, or ten complete one hundred thousand word novels.

I've been trying for five years, and am working on my fifth complete hundred thou novel.

I've learned alot, and I can see that each ms is much better than the last. I've re-read my first, and just shook my head at the writing.

If you want to be a good golfer, you'd play everyday, a piano player, same, a writer...

Gillhoughly · Dec 11, 2006

haefner919 said:
Before you take your project and put it on the back burner permanently?

According to the Guinness Book of Records Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is the bestselling novel rejected by the greatest number of potential publishers at 121 times. (Wikipedia)

Clearly the writer sent it out one more time than it was rejected.

Put your opus on a shelf, in sight, work on something else.

In the two-year span of shopping my 1st novel I wrote two others, and rewrote the 1st in-between them. And rewrote. And got feedback. And read other books. And rewrote!

When I put the "The End" on the first draft of #1 I thought I was done with it, that it was as perfect as it could ever be. Happily, more writing, reading, and experience proved me wrong. It's been 16 years since it came out and I would still like to seriously fiddle with it.

haefner919 · Dec 11, 2006

Very good advice Ken.... I plan to keep on writing and learning as much as I can. I've signed up for an online course and try to do as much reading as I can- online sites and books I find at the library or book store. The hard part is when I read conflicting advice.

haefner919 · Dec 11, 2006

Okay, so I guess "permanently" is a bit drastic...I can always set it aside and come back to it later....

Homer · Dec 11, 2006

UrsusMinor said:
On the novel that landed me an agent, I got offers with my first full reads...but getting the requests for the ms. involved a lot of rejections!

I really wish Julie Worth would stop repeating that ten full reads per offer canard because it's extremely misleading. Maybe that's her exerience, but some people get an offer on the first full read, and others don't get any after ten or twenty. It's impossible to generalize. For one thing, if you're previously published many agents will look at your full without even seeing a partial first. If you are selling YA or romance an agent will be more likely to look at a full off of your bare query. Some categories like literary or non-Romance historical fiction have a lower rate of requests for fulls, especially for unpulished authors. The generalization of an offer per ten fulls is worthless. Somewhere she posted her methodology and you can see how unreliable this is on its face. Any decent lawyer would have a field day cross examining her on her methodology.

IrishScribbler · Dec 11, 2006

haefner919 said:
Before you take your project and put it on the back burner permanently?

And to answer the question, I've sent out 43 queries and have gotten 20 rejections so far.

Jasper Fforde received 76 rejections before pubishing his first book, and now he's a bestselling author in the UK and the US.

JBI · Dec 11, 2006

Er, Kurt Vonnegut got something like 23 rejections for Cat's Cradle. Sold it to another publisher and what do you know, it was a best seller. Keep trying.

Julie Worth · Dec 11, 2006

Homer said:
...but some people get an offer on the first full read, and others don't get any after ten or twenty.

Exactly, that's why I said it was an average. Is "average" so hard to understand? Some will get an offer after one read, some after twenty, some never. I think everyone will agree the average is more than one and less than one hundred. There's no way an average of ten is "extremely misleading".

The point in saying this is that some people think that once they get a full read, that's it, they're going to get an offer. But no, the likelihood is that it's not going to happen that first time, or the second or third times, even if for some people it did happen that way. So the logical thing is to keep querying, assuming that the agent will pass, because most likely she will.

And in saying it takes ten reads per offer (which is no more than an estimate that I have no intention of defending in court) my assumption is that the author was not previously published. Agents like Peter Miller have sold books without reading them, selling them based on the author's previous work. Once you're published and done well, you're in a different world, statistically.

Alex Bravo · Dec 11, 2006

Great comments by Ken.

I've been working on the same manuscript for 12 years now, although, twice I trashed it completely and started from scratch. I knew the concept was good, because I got several requests to read it, but I kept getting rejected.

Now, if I go back and reread the old junk, it is exactly that, JUNK! I can't believe I actually thought my old stuff was good. I can't believe I actually submitted it! I would be embarrassed if I sent that out now. But I needed all those years to learn the craft.

Recently, after a few submissions, I found an agent. So to answer the question, how many rejections? I would guess I've been rejected over 80 times.

Alex

PS: Audio books really helped me. Stephen King talked about audio books in his writing book, so I tried it. The key to good writing is reading, reading, reading, but sometimes we don't have time. I realized that I was driving 45 minutes to work every day, so instead of the radio, I began listening to books. Now I listen to a book a week. When the traffic gets bad, I don't really care because I'm usually enjoying a good book. Once, when we had an ice storm hit my city and it took me three hours to drive home, my wife asked if I was worried or frustrated. I said no. I was too busy enjoying Harry Potter!

How many rejections does it take????

haefner919

Simon Woodhouse

J.S Greer

Feel the power!

haefner919

aka eraser

Fish Whisperer

haefner919

J.S Greer

Feel the power!

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

C.bronco

I have plans...

WildScribe

Slave to the Wordcount

J.S Greer

Feel the power!

Zolah

Over the hills and far away

Sassenach

5 W's & an H

UrsusMinor

UrsusMinor

janetbellinger

Ken Schneider

Absolute sagebrush

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

haefner919

haefner919

Homer

IrishScribbler

JBI

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

Alex Bravo