The common first time mistakes...

zorasaura · Dec 9, 2006

Ok, what are all the common mistakes people make the first time around?

Here are some that I can think of

1) Head hopping
2) too much exposition about setting
3) sloppy dialogue tags
4) too many characters
5) too memoir like

what else?

What are reasons that first manuscripts commonly dont work?

PeeDee · Dec 9, 2006

First time manuscripts? Well, it could be any number of things.

It could be that the prose is too rich and flowery, because the author remembers everything that s/he learned in school and is being careful neither to use the same word twice, nor to use plain words when they can rape a thesaurus instead. One of the biggest breakthroughs with any writer learning how to write is the point when they suddenly just shut up and tell the story.

It could be that the story is bigger than them. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try to write it. Of course they should try. It's just that the story is such a big thing sitting on shoulders that haven't built up any muscle yet, and you can hear it creaking as you read it. They should write it anyway, damn it.

...

Are we talking first thing ever written here? Or first novel completed? Or what?

For me, the thing which was probably wrong with the first thing I ever wrote was that I was aged 5 or 6. I had a little ways to go before. Hell, I hadn't even grasped the concept of using paragraphs yet. My first story is written in neat pencil on twelve sheets of college-ruled paper, front and back. It's all one block of text, dialogue and everything.

What was wrong with my first novel that I completed was that I was a comfortable and relatively decent short story writer who hadn't developed the shoulders to support a novel yet. Once it got past the length where I could fool myself into calling it a Long Short Story, it started to creak, bend and waver. It ends abruptly, because I think that's where my stamina quit.

bsolah · Dec 10, 2006

Number one First time mistake: Worrying too much about the nit-picky mechanics and not finishing the damn story.

bsolah · Dec 10, 2006

PeeDee said:
What was wrong with my first novel that I completed was that I was a comfortable and relatively decent short story writer who hadn't developed the shoulders to support a novel yet. Once it got past the length where I could fool myself into calling it a Long Short Story, it started to creak, bend and waver. It ends abruptly, because I think that's where my stamina quit.

That's the case for me with my last two novels, except I never got to the finish. Both are in limbo at thirty thousand words. Would appreciate some advice on how you got over that.

For now, I've gone back to short stories until I can overcome my novel problems. I think it has a bit to do with my inability to create a complete, novel length plot, rather than a good premise and beginning.

J.S Greer · Dec 10, 2006

Info dumping
Telling as opposed to showing
Adverb/adjective overuse
Poor form/grammar

I agree that you need to tellt he story first and foremost. Most of what is technically unsound can be fixed on revision. It does help a lot to get it as right the first time through as you can though.

ritinrider · Dec 10, 2006

bsolah said:
That's the case for me with my last two novels, except I never got to the finish. Both are in limbo at thirty thousand words. Would appreciate some advice on how you got over that.

For now, I've gone back to short stories until I can overcome my novel problems. I think it has a bit to do with my inability to create a complete, novel length plot, rather than a good premise and beginning.

Hey, maybe you're a short story writer. Nothing wrong with that.

Mark Lazer · Dec 10, 2006

Isolating your main character.

blacbird · Dec 10, 2006

Fantasizing that anything will ever get published.

caw

johnzakour · Dec 10, 2006

Worry way too much about finding an agent. Write the story, the rest will follow.

Azure Skye · Dec 10, 2006

My biggest mistake is telling and not showing.

karo.ambrose · Dec 10, 2006

Thinking everything about your first book is gold and pure genius and if it doesn't get accepted, it's because people are too dull and unintelligent to 'get' your masterpiece. You think it's so good that it doesn't even need any serious revisions, just superficial things like grammar and spelling.

Yes, I am speaking in second person and yes, I am referring to myself.

Sean D. Schaffer · Dec 10, 2006

My biggest mistake was trying to sell a work as a 'Fictional Novel'.

My second biggest was querying a company without telling them anything about the manuscript.

pconsidine · Dec 10, 2006

johnzakour said:
Write the story, the rest will follow.

Of course, this brings up what I consider the BIGGEST new novelist mistake:

Not having a story to tell.

It's one thing to have a cast of great characters, but they still have to do something. I once saw a definition of plot that called it "a series of events in a particular order for a particular purpose." Many new writers tend to skimp on the purpose (myself included). And purposeless writing make for pretty pointless reading.

Just my 2¢.

JanDarby · Dec 10, 2006

Lack of significant conflict.

That's also probably the hardest storytelling element to get a good handle on.

JD

Rashenbo · Dec 10, 2006

I found a helpful article about mistakes author's miss... I don't know if you've been there or not... but here you go.

Ten Mistakes Writers Miss

Gillhoughly · Dec 10, 2006

:editor's hat on:

Though rarely all at once:

Data dump tell-all about main character & his/her history
Data dump tell-all about setting
No hook
No spell check
No contact info on first and last page of MS in case we DO want to buy it
Not following the publisher's/agent's submissions guidelines
Thinks he or she is the FIRST to use present tense as a significant NEW way tell a story
Leaves pages upside down to see if I read that far
Takes rejections personally
Hasn't read nearly enough works by other writers to learn squat from their example.
Assumes fame, fortune, film deals (and perhaps moving out of the garage) will instantly follow a book sale.
Includes illustrations of characters
Includes illustrations of fantasy critters or space ships, depending on genre
Includes the cover illo their best friend did for the book
Includes astrological sign info in cover letter, along with info that the stars are in the best position for me to buy the work
Makes personal threats if I don't buy the work ("Buy my book or what happens to the serial killer's third victim will happen to YOU!" -- followed by this: "<G>," so I'll know he's just joking. Too late, I'm already phoning the cops.)
Telling me his/her writer's group, on-line readers, blog/My Space buddies, and mom really loved it.
Sending a script instead of a book, thinking the editor is supposed to put in the pesky descriptions and such.
Asking me to please excuse the spelling/grammar, but anyway, that's my job to fix.
Promising to call in a week to see if I liked it.
Scenting paper with perfume/cigarette smoke that sets off asthma/allergy attacks
Including a gift box of chocolates that have melted all over the pages despite the sealed Baggie
Hand-delivering it to the office, then sitting down to watch me READ it. ("Hello, security...?")

James D. Macdonald · Dec 10, 2006

Not finishing the darned manuscript.

kuatolives · Dec 10, 2006

Repetition of things already stated.

stormie · Dec 10, 2006

Worrying about chapter placement.
Worrying about word count and the thing's not finished.
Too many dialogue tags.
Too much info on the first pages.
Too much description.

Zolah · Dec 10, 2006

Trying to get published waaaaaaaaay too early. I wrote dozens of things when I was a teen, but wrote them all with the assumption that I needed to grow up and write proper stories that weren't copied off other author's books before I would get published. I considered my homages to Tamora Pierce, Susan Cooper, Terry Pratchett, Ursula Le Guin, Piers Anthony and Alan Garner 'practice pieces'. I accepted they weren't good enough to be real books.

I don't know if it's the internet, or Christopher Paolini, or what, but it seems young Zolah's attitude on that point is not shared by the majority of starting-out writers these days.

When/if they can't GET published, they get really, really angry with anyone who can, and all publishers, editors and agents, and then go and sign a contract with Publish America. Or, if these young writers do have talent and they manage to cobble together something fairly coherant, and THEN happen to approach an editor or agent who hasn't read whatever story the young author is ripping off, they end up having a bunch of derivative drivel published, and they can feel ashamed of it for the rest of their lives. Not win-win.

These guys should be honest with themselves, and accept that if everything in their story from character to theme was 'inspired' by another story (or stories) that they love, then it's not a real book, it's an homage and it needs to go in the drawer, not in an envelope to HarperCollins.

Simon Woodhouse · Dec 10, 2006

With me, it was writing in a way I thought people would want to read, but not in a way I felt comfortable writing. This caused me two false starts. Once I worked out what was wrong, the writing became a bit easier.

IrishScribbler · Dec 10, 2006

I'm already noticing "first-time" mistakes as I go back and edit the pieces I wrote for my short fiction class a couple of years ago.

I find that, at times, I tell rather than show (seems to be a common mistake in this thread).

I tend(ed) to take what one or more professor(s) said to heart, and use that as the Ultimate Advice, even if it went against my writing style or the story itself. Since then, I've learned that some professors are only parroting what they learned as an undergrad, grad, or doctoral student, and they think because a student has asked for advice, that student should feel obligated to take all advice given.

There are others, but those are the two big ones.

ChaosTitan · Dec 10, 2006

Zolah said:
Trying to get published waaaaaaaaay too early. I wrote dozens of things when I was a teen, but wrote them all with the assumption that I needed to grow up and write proper stories that weren't copied off other author's books before I would get published.

A very good point, Zolah, which goes along with my addition to the list: lack of voice.

Most first time novelists haven't written enough fiction yet to discover their own voice. I freely admit to having written homages in my teen years, from Sweet Valley High-inspired teen angst, to an Outsiders rip-off that is so blatant I laugh when I reread it. I liked what I wrote then, but I never had illusions that it was publishable.

I've been honing my craft for the last fourteen years, writing everything from novels to shorts to screenplays, and learning with each new project. Only in the last year or so have I started to look at my work and think of it as publishable. I have developed my own writing style (certainly influenced by many other writers, but no longer a blatant homage) and it works for me.

Some writers hit a homer their first time at bat. Most of us just swing away for a while, hoping that some day we'll figure out how to connect with the ball. But once we do connect, boy does it feel good.

TrickyFiction · Dec 10, 2006

Not having some kind of in-head outline, so the whole thing twists and turns in so many places, it comes out like a soap-opera, and I have to let it die.

mistri · Dec 10, 2006

Thinking you deserve to get published just because you've worked really really hard on the book.

Obsessing over one book for years, instead of moving on to writing a second after you've revised the first into shape and have started submitting it.

Not knowing when to take critters' comments to heart, and when it's safe to ignore them.

The common first time mistakes...

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