"Could see..." "Could hear..."

UrsusMinor · Dec 7, 2006

Something that is beginning to drive me a little daffy in manuscripts I am asked to critique is the use of "could" attached to "see" or "hear" (or any other sense verb. As in:

He felt the sun on his face, and could hear the roar of a lawnmower in the neighboring yard.

(Or, if we were to carry it to its logical conclusion, perhaps: He could feel the sun on his face, and could hear the roar of a lawnmower in the neighboring yard.)

After I see this more than a few times, I want to scream, "He could, could he? Well, why didn't he?" Why "...he could hear the roar of a lawnmower..." rather than "...he heard the roar of a lawnmower..."? Why this hypothetical, quasi-subjunctive 'could-ing'?

Now, there's some perfectly good reasons to use these constructions to sharpen a specific point: "From the rooftop, he could see all the way to the beach," or "Once the jackhammering stopped, he could hear the sound of the radio drifting from the kitchen window..."

Or even a moment of intense awareness or disorientation: "He could hear the rush of cars on the freeway above, and could feel the rumble of an approaching train, but he couldn't see anything but blackness around him."

But why all the "could feels" and "could sees" and "could hears" in contexts where people ought to be feeling and seeing and hearing? I ask the writers this question; they blink at me a few times, and then move on to another topic.

Is it just me? I wish I 'could see' what they are trying to do with all these extra 'coulds'.

PeeDee · Dec 7, 2006

It's passive writing, just like "was." "The body was placed on the couch by Frank."

Christine N. · Dec 7, 2006

This, I think, is called a 'filter'. Actions are filtered through the POV character's senses before being passed on to the reader.

I try to get rid of as many as I can - "He heard", "He saw", etc...

They drive me crazy too, if an author uses too many of them. One or two I can let slide.

The only place I actually use them, come to think of it, is if some other sense is incapacitated. Like if the character is blindfolded; I had a blindfolded character being carried through the woods, and what she could hear was important. But I guess I don't even need it then, do I?

IMO, most of the time it comes off sounding like weak writing.

Akuma · Dec 7, 2006

Your situation reminds me of "he thought to himself"...

Which, unless you're writing a book about telepathic mind reading, seems a bit redundant to me.

PeeDee · Dec 7, 2006

Akuma said:
Your situation reminds me of "he thought to himself"...

Which, unless you're writing a book about telepathic mind reading, seems a bit redundant to me.

"And so I says to myself, I says, "Self...."

Pisarz · Dec 7, 2006

PeeDee said:
"And so I says to myself, I says, "Self...."

Closely related to the following, which is found in spoken (as opposed to written) English:

"She said to me, she said, . . . [insert, well, what she said] . . ."

PeeDee · Dec 7, 2006

Pisarz said:
Closely related to the following, which is found in spoken (as opposed to written) English:

"She said to me, she said, . . . [insert, well, what she said] . . ."

Although used properly in a first person story, that can be music...

maestrowork · Dec 7, 2006

UrsusMinor said:
He felt the sun on his face, and could hear the roar of a lawnmower in the neighboring yard.

I would even go further and say take out all the "see" and "hear" type of filtering. Why not just:

The sun's heat burned his face and the roar of a lawnmower rumbled in the neighbor's yard.

PeeDee · Dec 7, 2006

maestrowork said:
I would even go further and say take out all the "see" and "hear" type of filtering. Why not just:

The sun's heat burned his face and the roar of a lawnmower rumbled in the neighbor's yard.

And now you have an active sentence which is earning its keep, and can be allowed to live.

Bufty · Dec 7, 2006

And therein perhaps lies the explanation to the original post. Maybe that's how a phrase develops from its beginner stage through intermediate to professional.

maestrowork said:
The sun's heat burned his face and the roar of a lawnmower rumbled in the neighbor's yard.

Scarlett_156 · Dec 7, 2006

Narrative should not sound like speech-- narrative should be active. People use these passive words a lot in speech, and if you use them judiciously in dialog it will make the dialog seem more true-to-life. To use them in narrative, however, is the mark of an immature writer.

PeeDee · Dec 7, 2006

Scarlett_156 said:
Narrative should not sound like speech-- narrative should be active. People use these passive words a lot in speech, and if you use them judiciously in dialog it will make the dialog seem more true-to-life. To use them in narrative, however, is the mark of an immature writer.

The other day, I said "I don't know. The sheet of paper was placed on the.....my god, that was a passive sentence. What the hell's wrong with me?"

My wife gave me a subtle look to indicate that I am a raving lunatic.

farfromfearless · Dec 7, 2006

I try to avoid that particular trap and focus on describing the sensory information using similes if appropriate. "He felt the sun on his face, and the lawnmower in the neighboring yard sounded like...<insert similes here>". There is a point where narrative has to step away from describing each and every action of the character and paint the setting for the reader to visualize and fill in the blanks.

WildScribe · Dec 7, 2006

I've gotten those looks for similar comments.

Jamesaritchie · Dec 7, 2006

Scarlett_156 said:
Narrative should not sound like speech-- narrative should be active. People use these passive words a lot in speech, and if you use them judiciously in dialog it will make the dialog seem more true-to-life. To use them in narrative, however, is the mark of an immature writer.

I don't believe dialogue should be passive very often, either. It may sound more realistic to some, but dialogue isn't about realism, it's about saying what needs to be said in the best, and most interesting, manner. Passive dialogue should only come from a passive character.

And, of course, if you're writing first person, everything, including narrative, is dialogue.

farfromfearless · Dec 7, 2006

Dialog should reflect the personality of the character; passive or active, I feel that it is a matter of finding a balance that (though may not be realistic when reading - most fantasy dialog is drivel) is enjoyable and works to further the scene/plot/story.

maestrowork · Dec 7, 2006

farfromfearless said:
I try to avoid that particular trap and focus on describing the sensory information using similes if appropriate. "He felt the sun on his face, and the lawnmower in the neighboring yard sounded like...<insert similes here>".

I don't know how to put it.... but "is like" or "sounds like" is a poor construction. It's weak prose. If you must use a simile, you need to put it in context and also use an active verb other than "be" or "sound" (which is a filter):

The lawnmower roared like a farting T. rex...

farfromfearless · Dec 7, 2006

Point taken

ChunkyC · Dec 7, 2006

Or tighten it up even more: "The lawnmower next door farted across the lawn."

UrsusMinor · Dec 7, 2006

The farting mower may or may not be great, depending on context, but I'm not worried about moving the sentences I see in these manuscripts from good to great. I'm trying to figure out how to tell people that they need to move them from bad to not-bad.

And I don't seem to be able to get people to understand why "could see" is usually bad.

Some of these people are otherwise quite good writers. Clearly something is wrong with the way I explain myself. (Perhaps "because this sucks" isn't specific enough?)

(I've tried, "You've converted a perfectly fine active verb into a passive construction," but that only catches the attention of a certain kind of person.)

So, if any of you have suggestions for how to explain this in an inrrefutable, attention-grabbng fashion...

Christine N. · Dec 7, 2006

This is weak writing. Filtering pushes the reader from the action instead of keeping them close, where you want them. It smacks of amateruism (ok, be blunt)
Not only that, but it's telling instead of showing. You writing "He felt", TELLS me, writing "The sun's heat warmed his face" SHOWS me.

THIS is stronger writing. (Give example)

Then throw a copy of "Self-Editing for Fiction Writers" at them and see if it sticks.

ChunkyC · Dec 7, 2006

Sorry Ursa, just farting around, nyuk nyuk.

Christine sums it up pretty well. I have to agree there's distance created when using "He could hear...." constructs. The narrator becomes stand-offish, and as a result, a bit obtrusive. You start to notice the narrator, which might not be what you're after. To use a movie analogy, it's akin to a voice-over. It might work at the opening of a scene, before you've drawn the reader in close, but if it's done after you have the reader in close, you risk breaking the spell you just worked so hard to cast.

badducky · Dec 7, 2006

"To be" verbs are not necessarily bad, however. Just remember that they are loners. They do not combine well with other verbs. Don't grant "to be" verbs a series of sentences in a row. Breaking them up is best.

rugcat · Dec 7, 2006

Scarlett_156 said:
Narrative should not sound like speech-- narrative should be active. People use these passive words a lot in speech, and if you use them judiciously in dialog it will make the dialog seem more true-to-life. To use them in narrative, however, is the mark of an immature writer.

I don't think good dialogue is about active and passive. It’s about having a good ear, about using the proper words, about where to place tags, about where to add a descriptive sentence. Above all. it’s about finding the proper rhythm and flow, much like music.

And it’s not only how it sounds, but how it looks on the page. Good dialogue is certainly not about replicating how people really speak; if you transcribed an actual conversation word for word it would be dreadful on the page. It’s about creating the illusion of realistic speech.

Like the rest of writing, at heart it’s a creative endeavor. If you follow a set of rules, your dialogue may come off as competent, but it may well also come off as flat and uninspired. We all believe we have talent - trust that belief. Read your dialogue over and over and work on it until it sounds right to you. Don't worry about things like the proportion between active and passive.

anodyne · Dec 7, 2006

So as someone who is always afraid of being a weak writer, is it alright to use it sparingly, or is it something that should be avoided at all costs. Does it ever help to strengthen an idea of uncertainty, like say, if someone is trying to look past another character, or under their arm.

Is "could feel" kosher if it's a disorienting situation? Ever? Is this a YMMV thing?

"Could see..." "Could hear..."

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