Turning no to yes

tourdeforce · Dec 6, 2006

Several years ago, I attempted to option a book, a non-fiction account of an event which would I believe would make a searing, explosive film. The book itself is quite obscure and I would be surprised if more than a few hundred poeple have read it.

Unfortunately, my option request was turned down by the daughter of the author. She advised that before her father died he requested that this book not be developed into a film out of respect for the people involved.

Money did not seem to be an issue (although, in the end, it always is). For the record, I think I offered $5K.

However, I can't seem to let this go. I need to turn that no into a yes.

I have considered approaching as many of the individuals involved and optioning their rights as possible and then returning for the book rights. Although I am concerned that this may be considered underhanded or disrespectful and might scuttle my chances at the outset of a second request.

And, of course, the answer could still be no.

I also wonder about trying to attach talent to this project and re-approaching the estate with names involved. Based on the strength of the material and my current contacts, I think that I could drum up impressive interest that may change the daughter's mind. On this course, I am concerned about promoting a project before I had any control over it. Without an option in hand, I could easily be cut out of the process as I have nothing to bring to the table. Is there any insurance that protocol would keep me involved somehow? Of course, not.

And, once again, the answer could still be no.

How would you turn a no into a yes?

Celia Cyanide · Dec 6, 2006

It's pretty hard to turn that no into yes, if that's what her father stated before his death. If he were alive, you might be able to change his mind.

I once wanted to make a film based on a real person's life, but after I started the research, I gave up on it. There was a controversy surrounding the death that I did not know about until I started talking to people. It was hard to get at the truth, and it seemed impossible to really tell the truth without serverely upsetting the family, and I didn't want to do that.

Goodwriterguy · Dec 6, 2006

tourdeforce said:
Several years ago, I attempted to option a book, a non-fiction account of an event which would I believe would make a searing, explosive film. The book itself is quite obscure and I would be surprised if more than a few hundred poeple have read it.

Unfortunately, my option request was turned down by the daughter of the author. She advised that before her father died he requested that this book not be developed into a film out of respect for the people involved.

Money did not seem to be an issue (although, in the end, it always is). For the record, I think I offered $5K.

However, I can't seem to let this go. I need to turn that no into a yes.

I have considered approaching as many of the individuals involved and optioning their rights as possible and then returning for the book rights. Although I am concerned that this may be considered underhanded or disrespectful and might scuttle my chances at the outset of a second request.

And, of course, the answer could still be no.

I also wonder about trying to attach talent to this project and re-approaching the estate with names involved. Based on the strength of the material and my current contacts, I think that I could drum up impressive interest that may change the daughter's mind. On this course, I am concerned about promoting a project before I had any control over it. Without an option in hand, I could easily be cut out of the process as I have nothing to bring to the table. Is there any insurance that protocol would keep me involved somehow? Of course, not.

And, once again, the answer could still be no.

How would you turn a no into a yes?

Boy, this is a toughie.

Attaching talent is a good idea though, beause people do get stars in their eyes.

To do that you'd probably have to write a treatment, nothing humongous or greatly detailed, just a dozen pages of the major beats of the story that reveal its compeling nature. Take that to your talent. Talk with them but DO NOT reveal the name of the daughter. If any are interested and realize their role (their name's role) in changing the daughter's mind, get them to sign a non-disclosure ageement (NDA), a standard legal document that constrains the signer from disclosing the subject to others (talking about it to others, most especially "JANE DOE," who would be the daughter).

Then take your proposal to the daughter, impressing upon her the idea that even though her father didn't want a film made the story is simply too important to not make a picture, and let the star power do the rest. Promise her a "thank you' credit on the pic.

If she says "yes," get her into a written deal ASAP, and you've got control.

Tough though.

Good luck!

Mac H. · Dec 6, 2006

tourdeforce said:
Several years ago, I attempted to option a book, a non-fiction account of an event which would I believe would make a searing, explosive film. The book itself is quite obscure and I would be surprised if more than a few hundred poeple have read it.

Unfortunately, my option request was turned down by the daughter of the author. ....

How would you turn a no into a yes?

Please tell me if you get an answer. I have a very similar problem.

Again - an account of an event that would be the PERFECT movie.

The author died, leaving everything to the son.
The son died, leaving everything to his wife.
His wife died, leaving everything to another relative.

This relative (who appears to be the legal owner of the copyright) is now living in a retirement village. She hadn't even heard of the original author .. a long-lost relative. She had no idea that she probably owned the copyright to his memoirs. And she simply 'doesn't feel right' about it being used in a film. As in your experience, I don't think money was an issue. As far as I can understand from the few phone calls, it seems to be a simple "Films are bad" idea common in that age group.

I have no idea what to do next that might convince the remaining relative to give permission. Since this is the most perfect movie material I've ever seen, I really want to make the film version a reality. The sad thing is that the book itself is also largely forgotten now, simply because the original publishers had no idea who owned the copyright, so can not republish.

Mac

Goodwriterguy · Dec 6, 2006

Mac H. said:
Please tell me if you get an answer. I have a very similar problem.

Again - an account of an event that would be the PERFECT movie.

The author died, leaving everything to the son.
The son died, leaving everything to his wife.
His wife died, leaving everything to another relative.

This relative (who appears to be the legal owner of the copyright) is now living in a retirement village. She hadn't even heard of the original author .. a long-lost relative. She had no idea that she probably owned the copyright to his memoirs. And she simply 'doesn't feel right' about it being used in a film. As in your experience, I don't think money was an issue. As far as I can understand from the few phone calls, it seems to be a simple "Films are bad" idea common in that age group.

I have no idea what to do next that might convince the remaining relative to give permission. Since this is the most perfect movie material I've ever seen, I really want to make the film version a reality. The sad thing is that the book itself is also largely forgotten now, simply because the original publishers had no idea who owned the copyright, so can not republish.

Mac

Find out who her Pastor is, talk to him, and let him convince her that it's okay for a movie to be made. The idea is that good stories have value to the public ... so he's doing a public service in convincing her to do likewise.

And BTW, the book may well have passed into the public domain, copyrights aren't forever yunno. They're good for 50 years after the author's death, and that's it.

xhouseboy · Dec 7, 2006

It's 70 years after the author's death in the US.

Was the book published between 1923 - 1963? If so, and if the copyright wasn't renewed (I think it had to be renewed every 28 years before then, and only a small minority were) then the work is now in public domain.

We purchased an option on an author's work some years ago. It was approaching the centenary of his birth, and we first went through the author's appreciation society and then had them approach the author's estate on our behalf. With them on our side, we didn't encounter any problems.

Also, I'm currently involved in a situation where a director wishes to purchase another option on a well-known author's work (now deceased). There shouldn't be any problems with the option, it's up for grabs if we want it, but the story is also historical fact (the author embellished his account of the tale - half-fiction, half-fact). Situation here is we can run with this story without the option and fictionalise our own account, but it may be in our best interests to adapt the author's work. I mention this only because the OP intimated that the work he wishes to adapt is a factual account, and I was just wondering if there is anything in the public records about it. Just a thought.

Goodwriterguy · Dec 7, 2006

xhouseboy said:
It's 70 years after the author's death in the US.

I stand corrected.

Thanks!

Julie Worth · Dec 7, 2006

tourdeforce said:
Money did not seem to be an issue (although, in the end, it always is). For the record, I think I offered $5K.

How would you turn a no into a yes?

You answered your question. Offer her $50,000.

Joe Calabrese · Dec 7, 2006

You said a few hundred people at most read this book?

So why option it? Why acknowledge it?

It's not a best seller and trying to sell a script based on a dog (a small printing) won't do you any favors.

But if you feel strongly about the event (the people, the facts involved, the story, etc...), then write it.

Fictionalize it, change the names and put on the cover "Inspired by True Events."

Just make sure not to use the same title as the book and do more research because if you can find more than one source for anything that is an actual particular, then you are in the clear, but if that book is the only source for a particular then you can't use it.

Then go sell the script.

If a producer loves it and wants it, they will get the rights if need be, otherwise, they just keep it as a good story of fiction.

In other words... Writers write, Producers make deals and Lawyers cover everyone's butts.

Good luck.

scripter1 · Dec 7, 2006

And this Joe

is why we miss you so much.

tourdeforce · Dec 7, 2006

Julie Worth said:
Offer her $50,000.

Unfortunately, this is beyond my budget.

tourdeforce · Dec 7, 2006

xhouseboy said:
I mention this only because the OP intimated that the work he wishes to adapt is a factual account, and I was just wondering if there is anything in the public records about it. Just a thought.

There is a certain amount of info on the public record, however, this author's account was based on invaluable access to surviving family members at the time. He puts the heart into the story. I think any telling of this story would need toharken back to his research and accounting.

tourdeforce · Dec 7, 2006

Goodwriterguy said:
To do that you'd probably have to write a treatment, nothing humongous or greatly detailed, just a dozen pages of the major beats of the story that reveal its compeling nature. Take that to your talent. Talk with them but DO NOT reveal the name of the daughter. If any are interested and realize their role (their name's role) in changing the daughter's mind, get them to sign a non-disclosure ageement (NDA), a standard legal document that constrains the signer from disclosing the subject to others (talking about it to others, most especially "JANE DOE," who would be the daughter).

Then take your proposal to the daughter, impressing upon her the idea that even though her father didn't want a film made the story is simply too important to not make a picture, and let the star power do the rest. Promise her a "thank you' credit on the pic.

If she says "yes," get her into a written deal ASAP, and you've got control.

Great advice. Thank you. NDA's might be the thing to make this work.

Goldminer · Dec 8, 2006

I think the key in these situations is always to gain the trust of the person holding the rights. Without that you will never get anywhere, and with that just about all the obstacles will evaporate.

I think the best way to do that is to somehow get a face to face meeting with her. In that meeting you should be utterly respectful. Overall you should show her the deep love for her father's work that you obviously carry. What she needs to hear most of all is that her father isn't going to be butchered by some hack. You should be able to talk intelligently about all aspects of the book till the cows come home, and crucially, you should be able to show that your vision of the book chimes sympathetically with her view of her father's view of his work. If she comes away from the meeting believing you are a serious honorable person, who will do good things with the book, you are in with a fighting chance.

You never know - if you really get on with her, you might even end up with a free option. Far stranger things have happened....

Celia Cyanide · Dec 9, 2006

Joe Calabrese said:
You said a few hundred people at most read this book?

So why option it? Why acknowledge it?

It's not a best seller and trying to sell a script based on a dog (a small printing) won't do you any favors.

This is a very good point, but if you flip it around, it might be a good way to get the book rights. If the film does well, it will renew interest in the book. You could tell the author's daughter that more people will be interested in reading it, and maybe you could convince her that her father would have wanted that.

English Dave · Dec 10, 2006

OP, I think you need to look at the story and wonder why only a few hundred people read it. Is it a movie?

Goodwriterguy · Dec 10, 2006

English Dave said:
OP, I think you need to look at the story and wonder why only a few hundred people read it. Is it a movie?

This is certainly fair enough. Good books, however, don't always sell well. Sometimes publishers fail to promote them with good effect, don't get them talked up, and don't advertise them. Plenty of good books have turned into nothing more than dust gatherers.

English Dave · Dec 10, 2006

Goodwriterguy said:
This is certainly fair enough. Good books, however, don't always sell well. Sometimes publishers fail to promote them with good effect, don't get them talked up, and don't advertise them. Plenty of good books have turned into nothing more than dust gatherers.

Possibly, but not many 'movie books' Prodco's and studios have readers who specifically read galley proofs of just about everything that is 'legitamately' published. And not necessarily Major as in huge. Scott Rudin does it. And how do you think the Harry Potter books ended up with a tiny UK prodco.

If you find a great book that hasn't already been rejected then well done. That's almost as hard as writing a great spec and getting it rejected.

tourdeforce · Dec 11, 2006

English Dave said:
OP, I think you need to look at the story and wonder why only a few hundred people read it. Is it a movie?

English Dave said:
If you find a great book that hasn't already been rejected then well done. That's almost as hard as writing a great spec and getting it rejected.

First published in the 1960's, this book was re-published by a university press ten plus years ago. I came across it in the late 90's. While it might have been a somewhat noted work at the time of its first release, I do not believe it garnered any real attention on its re-release. The university press section does not seem to get much traffic (especially for non-fiction works).

dclary · Dec 11, 2006

Why not just go with "based on a true story" and change all the names?

tourdeforce · Dec 11, 2006

dclary said:
Why not just go with "based on a true story" and change all the names?

At this time, all my knowledge comes from the journalistic work done by the original author. Based on access at the time of the event and shortly after, it may be difficult to recreate. The book is a living document of the event that puts human faces on the tragedy.

I am going to explore the NDA angle. If that does not work, I just might do my own research and write it as a spec.

Joe Calabrese · Dec 11, 2006

Don't take offense, but to me it sounds like you want to take the easy way out.

Loads of research is done for any script and you are limiting yourself by going with only one source for all your material (as good as you may think it is.)

If I were you and I fell in love with this book and thought that the historical event was worthy of a feature film, I would do the research and write the script.

You just might find out that a combination of several sources (that would negate the fact you need the option) may turn out to be a better story than you originally thought.

Adaptation is not just recreating someone else's work in another form, but adapting it into that form and that may require changing it altogether.

Good luck and I strongly advise you do not do an option and pay for it for any book or source that was not "hot." Let the producers deal with it if they want to for the rewrite.

Go with "Based on..." and have multiple sources for everything you put in it or make stuff up as YOU are the writer, master of the world you are about to create.

Goodwriterguy · Dec 12, 2006

tourdeforce said:
At this time, all my knowledge comes from the journalistic work done by the original author. Based on access at the time of the event and shortly after, it may be difficult to recreate. The book is a living document of the event that puts human faces on the tragedy.

I am going to explore the NDA angle. If that does not work, I just might do my own research and write it as a spec.

I assume the event occurred in what we would term "modern times" (say post War 2) so that there is undoubtedlty a wealth of journalistic reportage available out there on the story and possibly some technical materials if a plane crash was involved (NTSB accident report; FBI criminal investigation reports) and perhaps some academic works. Notable events are written about extensively by a wide variety of entities, from newspapers and magazines to academics, researchers, think tanks, and others.

Few notable events are ever covered in one book.

How many books were written on the accident at Three Mile Island? The turret blowup on a US Battleship a few years ago? The FBI/ATF attack at Waco? The loss of Pan Am Flight 107 over Lockerbie? TWA 800? These kinds of events generate huge amounts of reportage and coverage.

It may be nice to get the rights to the book you seek, but surely it isn't the only source of information, is it? And even if you should get the rights, you're probably gonna want to wade through everything else, as a corroborative measure if nothing else.

You probably have more options than you seem to think. The convenience this one book appears to offer may be more illusory than meets the less than disciplined eye. Caution is advised. Prudence is called for.

tourdeforce · Dec 12, 2006

Thank you all for the great feedback.

I am actually coming around to the fact that I should use this one book as a source, do my own research and create an independent work.

Of course, all through the process, I will be concerned about crossing over the line and relying too heavily on this one book- which by any subjective view is the definitive text on the matter.

I guess I will need to also research just where that line is.

Goodwriterguy · Dec 12, 2006

tourdeforce said:
Thank you all for the great feedback.

I am actually coming around to the fact that I should use this one book as a source, do my own research and create an independent work.

Of course, all through the process, I will be concerned about crossing over the line and relying too heavily on this one book- which by any subjective view is the definitive text on the matter.

I guess I will need to also research just where that line is.

These things are always tough, there's simply no question about it.

You do seem to have passion about bringing this story to the screen and that's the good part; if this story deserves the screen you will be doing a service if you can manage to get it there.

I've written a couple like this, really tough nuts to crack, so I have a lot of sympathy for your situation. You just have to pesevere, keep at it, stick to your guns, and don't take "no" for an answer. It won't be easy, but nobody promised us a rose garden either. It's writer's work.

Charge ahead, and get up and do it again!

Turning no to yes

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