John said; said John

Diviner · Dec 5, 2006

Which is better, "John said" or "said John" or is neither preferable? I know lots of you hate quotation marks and attributions, but I use them when necessary to make things clear and even to slow things down by putting them in the middle of a line of dialogue; but sometimes it seems more natural to write "said John" after the line, as in, "I need my coffee," said John, as opposed to "Wait until I tell you my news," John said. It seems like if the name is first, the most important thing is whose line it is, but if the "said" is first, the words take on more importance. What do you think?

Sean D. Schaffer · Dec 5, 2006

I personally use "John said". The other method you mentioned seems a little less natural to me.

However, part of the reason I do things this way, is that my word-processor's spelling and grammar checker (before I learned how to turn it off) would make the "said John" into a separate sentence. I never really got over the feeling that I was doing something wrong even though it was technically correct, because my word-processor didn't know what correct grammar was.

Elektra · Dec 5, 2006

It depends on the rhythm of the sentence. Sometimes one flows more naturally than the other.

heatheringemar · Dec 5, 2006

I'd say it depends on the style of sentence, but usually I'd go with "John said."

Akuma · Dec 5, 2006

Doesn't matter.

zarch · Dec 5, 2006

John said, "I need my coffee."

"I need my coffee," said John.

CrankItTo11 · Dec 5, 2006

Here is my preference: "Blah," said John.

(John must be a vampire. Blah! Blah!)

The alternative sounds too conversational... and it almost sounds as if it is present tense(?)

maddythemad · Dec 5, 2006

Yeah, I agree with CrankItTo... I use "John said," usually at the end of whatever John said (wow, really repetitive sentence there.) Sometimes I vary it, though, depending on how I want the paragraph to flow.

Whatever you like, you should go with.

BruceJ · Dec 5, 2006

I avoid attributions when I can, but I've read a style guide that derided "said John" because it came across too stilted. But then, the only difference between the writer of the style guide's opinion and anyone else's is that he managed to get it published...

farfromfearless · Dec 5, 2006

It depends on the tone of your piece. In many cases such as the Greg Keyes' The Briar King, dialog tags are almost non-existent. I wouldn't get too hung up on this though. For me, I prefer to avoid direct use of dialog tags if I can help it. I tend to describe a secondary action to illustrate the situation and emotions behind the dialog.

"Do you have to be such a jerk?" Jane pursed her lips and turned away to hide the hot tears that stung her eyes.

maestrowork · Dec 5, 2006

It depends on the style. Most likely, it doesn't matter, as long as you're consistent. Personally, I prefer "John said" -- more natural to me. Except for the following case:

"That's a beauty," said the man with one arm.

Mr. Funktastic · Dec 5, 2006

It doesn't really matter. Use whatever seems to flow.

SomethingCatchy · Dec 5, 2006

I prefer 'John said' - 'said John' feels awkward. As others have said, use whatever feels natural.

J.S Greer · Dec 5, 2006

"Said John" should be used i youre continuing a thought.

"I dont care." Said John, turning and walking away.

"John said" should be the one used for common dialogue.

Using neither is acceptable too as long as the reader knows who is talking.

FennelGiraffe · Dec 5, 2006

I think "John said" is probably the neutral option. It doesn't draw attention to itself. It can be used anywhere. However, "said John" is also valid in certain cases. It's a little more self-conscious, a little more pretentious, but it can be the right choice for some narrative voices.

JasonChirevas · Dec 6, 2006

farfromfearless said:
It depends on the tone of your piece. In many cases such as the Greg Keyes' The Briar King, dialog tags are almost non-existent. I wouldn't get too hung up on this though. For me, I prefer to avoid direct use of dialog tags if I can help it. I tend to describe a secondary action to illustrate the situation and emotions behind the dialog.

"Do you have to be such a jerk?" Jane pursed her lips and turned away to hide the hot tears that stung her eyes.

Exactly. To me, dialog tags are a wasted opportunity to illustrate and enrich character. Readers' eyes gloss right over them, anyway.

-J

seun · Dec 6, 2006

I go for John said, but as others have said it probably doesn't matter. I just prefer how it looks and sounds.

Novelust · Dec 6, 2006

Doesn't matter. The reader's eyes tend to skate over both of them. They should only be used when a reader could become confused as to which character is talking.

And could I speak up in favor of not relying on a character's action to attribute dialogue? It can really slow down your story in a way that 'John said; said John' won't.

Risen_Flower · Dec 6, 2006

CrankItTo11 said:
Here is my preference: "Blah," said John.

(John must be a vampire. Blah! Blah!)

The alternative sounds too conversational... and it almost sounds as if it is present tense(?)

[FONT=&quot]I didn't think of it that way. Now that you've said that, it does read differently using said... instead of he said...

It seems more like present tense using said...

Cool.

Too bad, I write in past tense though.[/FONT]

poetinahat · Dec 6, 2006

maestrowork said:
It depends on the style. Most likely, it doesn't matter, as long as you're consistent. Personally, I prefer "John said" -- more natural to me. Except for the following case:

"That's a beauty," said the man with one arm.

I've got to know, Ray: what did he say with the other arm?

Julie Worth · Dec 6, 2006

maestrowork said:
It depends on the style. Most likely, it doesn't matter, as long as you're consistent. Personally, I prefer "John said" -- more natural to me. Except for the following case:

"That's a beauty," said the man with one arm.

I agree: “John said,” and “said the dying man.”

One problem in using “said Dick” and “said Jane,” is that your writing might sound like a first grade reader.

Jamesaritchie · Dec 6, 2006

Said

It's a matter of taste, but "said John" pulls me out of the story because it's the way children's books, those for the "See Jane run" age group, used to do it.

CrankItTo11 · Dec 6, 2006

OK, so this should illustrate how much it doesn't matter to me (and yet, that didn't stop me from posting an opinion).

Previously, I voted for "said John".... I just gave a quick glace at my previous novel and it is almost all "John said."

Ha!

Norman D Gutter · Dec 6, 2006

Every editor I've talked with, and the couple of professional edits I've received, have said it should be "John said". I keep forgetting this, so I always test it by substituting the gender pronoun: "he said" vs. "said he". I can't think of a single time in a book I've seen "said he".

maestrowork · Dec 6, 2006

poetinahat said:
I've got to know, Ray: what did he say with the other arm?

You know how you put one hand under the armpit and then squeeze...

John said; said John

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