How did you find your betas?

scarletpeaches · Dec 5, 2006

Something Maestro said (wb by the way, you timed your return well, now I'm back online with broadbean myself

) in the other beta thread about his readers made me wonder...

...For those of us who have beta readers, how did you get them? Online? Real life? Are they family? Friends?

Did you approach them or did they beg to read what you'd written so far? Are they bookworms, or just 'ordinary' people who read occasionally?

What do you look for in a beta and what do you avoid?

I've seen many threads about what to ask them, but very few on how to get them.

Anyhoo, this is just me being nosy...nosey? I never did know how to spell that word.

maestrowork · Dec 5, 2006

Homeless people are the best. You give them five bucks and they will do anything for you. Many of them are college educated. It really is a win-win situation.

johnnysannie · Dec 5, 2006

I considered the available pool of people I know and then picked ones who I felt were all the following:

readers
intelligent
willing to be unbiased
blunt and honest
at least semi-knowledgeable about grammar, spelling, etc.

Then I asked if they would.

Mine included a computer programmer, a nurse, a college English prof, and
a grad student.

scarletpeaches · Dec 5, 2006

No homeless people, then?

ritinrider · Dec 5, 2006

good question scarlett, hopefully someone will have a better suggestion. How did you find your beta readers? Ray, your idea won't work for those of us who don't live near town.

johnnysannie · Dec 5, 2006

Not a one. The homeless folks I considered just didn't seem to have a proper reading lamp or the time to sit down to read, being busy with panhandling and other such activities.

kbax · Dec 5, 2006

I actually found my first beta through my therapist. He was her 12-year-old nephew, and he read voraciously, so she thought it would be perfect (especially since he didn't actually know me). She even arranged a sit-down between him and I one Saturday afternoon. That woman was more like a life coach than a therapist, I swear.

As for my others, I write young adult fiction and I'm 24, so it can be tough finding betas in my targeted demographic. Not too many 15-year-old homeless kids in my town, thank God.

My other betas were friends who were interested in the subject matter and had a good grasp on grammar and story. One of them finished reading and gave me his comments within about a month. The other hasn't finished yet--I've completed the first draft of another novel in the time since I've given him the MS of the last one. So, to johnnysannie's list, I would add:

RELIABLE.

CaroGirl · Dec 5, 2006

Two years ago I took a general-interest writing course. After the class ended, few of us decided to form a critique group, and we've been meeting monthly ever since. Five of them are now the betas for my novel. I don't know for sure how quickly I'll get comments back, or what, precisely, those comments might be, because they've only ever critted my short stories, thus far. I also have one beta that I met here at AW who's asked to read and crit (you know who you are!).

Good luck finding betas. I'm sure hoping mine will be a valuable resource toward finally getting published.

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 5, 2006

I often wonder if Dumas, Dickens, Hemmingway, et al had beta readers. And if they did, did they call them beta readers (since beta, I believe, is a computer term).

aadams73 · Dec 5, 2006

I found mine in Borders. I hunkered down in the mystery section, waited until they plucked books like mine off the shelves, then I whacked them over the head and dragged them out to my car where I held them hostage until they finished ~~bleeding~~ reading my manuscript.

Actually mine are two of my friends. One is a writer, and the other is just an avid reader. My mother used to be one of my betas, but I won't let her do it anymore because she'd come back with dumb stuff such as: "You can't say ****sucker because readers won't like that." Not exactly helpful.

JimmyB27 · Dec 5, 2006

Mine came free in a box of cornflakes

Carmy · Dec 5, 2006

My betas are part of a writing group formed when some of them were taking a writing course together. They include teachers, social workers and housewives. All are writers, some are poets.

I also run my work through a small and private on-line group where there are honest critics who don't hold back. I wouldn't dream of submitting work unless both groups had a chance to tear it apart.

scarletpeaches · Dec 5, 2006

The funny thing is, not many UK writers mention betas...whether they have them or not, I don't know.

I often wonder what the point of betas is. If you change your novel because of something a beta says, are you being true to your original idea? If you change it to something they suggest, does it not become their book rather than your own?

And, as in the case of agents, very often one will say something, another will say the opposite, so do the two comments cancel each other out?

It's something to think about. I gave a couple of pieces to a bookworm friend and she came back with brilliant, loved it, you go girl...that's what you get for giving your writing to a friend.

Looking back, she may have liked it but it needed a helluva lot of work and neither of the pieces I gave her is fit for publication as is.

I gave my aunt my recently-finished novel and her comment? "I can see why no-one would take it on; it's too working class."

Say what-?!

ChaosTitan · Dec 5, 2006

scarletpeaches said:
I often wonder what the point of betas is. If you change your novel because of something a beta says, are you being true to your original idea? If you change it to something they suggest, does it not become their book rather than your own?

I look to betas for help with the mechanics. I have certain weaknesses in my writing that a good beta has pointed out, and that I am now conscious of when editing on my own. He finds the little things that I can't see, and helps make the manuscript shine.

I rarely ask betas for help with the idea or the plot, unless there is a specific point I am struggling with.

scarletpeaches · Dec 5, 2006

I wish I'd had a beta years ago to tell me about head-jumping.

I have to say, AW saved me on that point.

Carmy · Dec 5, 2006

scarletpeaches said:
The funny thing is, not many UK writers mention betas...whether they have them or not, I don't know.

I often wonder what the point of betas is. If you change your novel because of something a beta says, are you being true to your original idea? If you change it to something they suggest, does it not become their book rather than your own?

The betas may be working online rather than meeting face-to-face.

A good critic will never try to change your style or your story, but may question aspects of the plot. If more than one critic mentions the same thing, pay close attention. Otherwise, you have the final word about ignoring or adopting anything said.

PeeDee · Dec 5, 2006

There's this cool writing web-site called AbsoluteWrite (or something; I think) and they have some forums. A few people hang out there. I harrassed the locals and got them to read my stuff.

You should check it out. www.absolutewrite.com/forums

scarletpeaches · Dec 5, 2006

So, ask betas to concentrate more on style, rather than story? Makes sense to me...get them to concentrate on technicalities that may trip up a less-bookwormy reader, to smooth out the telling of the tale?

Carmy · Dec 5, 2006

I think it's best not to give your betas instructions on what to do or how to do it. I've found that some concentrate on grammar and technique while others look at the overall picture. No two critiques are the same.

scarletpeaches · Dec 5, 2006

A few people, who, when they found out I'm a writer, asked, "Ooh. Can I read it?"

The next time I hear that, I may very well say, "Yes...with conditions..."

maestrowork · Dec 5, 2006

scarletpeaches said:
I often wonder what the point of betas is. If you change your novel because of something a beta says, are you being true to your original idea? If you change it to something they suggest, does it not become their book rather than your own?

I don't treat my betas that way. They're my test subjects. If I want writerly advice and plot ideas, I will ask my writing group. If someone says, "You should change it this way" or "What about if he does this or that," I know he's not the right beta reader for me. I want them to tell me what works and what doesn't work for me without telling me exactly how THEY would or suggest me to rework it.

Beside, changing something because someone gives you a better idea doesn't mean it's not your book anymore. I don't have the golden word/idea problem. Personally I find brainstorming wonderful. It energize my own thought processes and one idea might spawn more ideas. And I can take these ideas and run with them and see where they take me. It's great.

I am not THAT protective of my words. If something doesn't work, I will change it. It's not really about ME the writer. It's about IT my work. I want to make the best work so that people can enjoy it, and my betas are my first "people."

PeeDee · Dec 5, 2006

Carmy said:
I think it's best not to give your betas instructions on what to do or how to do it. I've found that some concentrate on grammar and technique while others look at the overall picture. No two critiques are the same.

That's why I don't ask anyone for anything other than "Read it." and "try to enjoy it."

What comes from that is up to the beta. Once, I got a page-by-page summary and review. (That was mind-boggling.) Sometimes, I get the equivalent of annotations. Sometimes, I just get an "I realy enjoyed it." which is good enough for me.

ChaosTitan · Dec 5, 2006

scarletpeaches said:
So, ask betas to concentrate more on style, rather than story? Makes sense to me...get them to concentrate on technicalities that may trip up a less-bookwormy reader, to smooth out the telling of the tale?

If you are confident with the story, yes.

If you are iffy about the entire manuscript, give them free reign to comment as they see fit.

Finding good betas is like shopping for shoes. Thousands exist, and they serve all sorts of functions, but only you know what you need and if they will fit.

Carmy · Dec 5, 2006

scarletpeaches said:
A few people, who, when they found out I'm a writer, asked, "Ooh. Can I read it?"

Unless those people know something about writing and the rules of fiction, what purpose will they serve?

Also, if they read it now, will they want to buy it when it's published?

Make sure your betas are fiction writers.

PeeDee · Dec 5, 2006

Carmy said:
Unless those people know something about writing and the rules of fiction, what purpose will they serve?

Also, if they read it now, will they want to buy it when it's published?

Make sure your betas are fiction writers.

No, no, no. Just make sure they're really interested. Not all of your readers are going to be analytical fiction writers, after all. If I have five people read something I wrote, 2 of them may be writers (on average).

How did you find your betas?

scarletpeaches

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

johnnysannie

scarletpeaches

ritinrider

johnnysannie

kbax

Refrigerate After Opening

CaroGirl

Living the dream

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

aadams73

A Work in Progress

JimmyB27

Hoopy frood

Carmy

scarletpeaches

ChaosTitan

Around

scarletpeaches

Carmy

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

scarletpeaches

Carmy

scarletpeaches

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

ChaosTitan

Around

Carmy

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?