Combatting the stereotype

Are you telling people that you write 'women's fiction' -- because it is often, albeit incorrectly, used as a synonym for genre romance in books stores, by agents and all over the place. I deal with any possible misunderstandings by, um, never telling my 'real world' associates anyhting about my writing.

IrishScribbler said:

I'm a female writer, and my current manuscript is a women's fiction novel dealing with mental health (or lack thereof, really).

However, I've noticed something. When people hear (or I tell them) I'm a writer, many assume I write romance or children's fiction.

Without offense to romance writers out there, this is incredibly infuriating to me! Some of the most influential literary writers in American and European history have been women. Some men write romance.

I've been trying to figure out exactly why people think this way. Perhaps it is, indeed, the stereotype that women writers write for women or children. But this furthers the stereotype that women readers only read romance or children's books.

Have any other women's fiction writers run into this? For you romance writers out there....what stereotypes have you run into that you're trying to combat?

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I'm a male writing woman's fiction. Regarding my position, thankfully women are more circumspect and thoughtful with their opinions than most men. With some men, patience yields great results, but others are best after being beaten with a baseball bat--not that I suggest you do this, but I'm being metaphorical about difficulties I would also face if I told certain men what I write.

Remember, the illiterati are your potential customers. Re your irritation with them, you should explain--I mean, give them a little rope to play with at least.

But from explaining my writing I've had revenge attacks, as if somehow I've put them down, so eventually they think up a comeback put down. EG, one noteable comeback I had from someone was, I write little pieces for our school's mag, but I'd never have the audacity to call myself a writer.

The guy who said it is an acquaintance and I'd already explained my writing. His comment seemed to come out of the blue, but my talk of my writing must have niggled him. It's something to watch for.

I've run into this before myself. I remember one time just saying I was a writer, and a guy saying in a very ugly, sneering tone, "You write romance?" No, I write action-adventure thrillers for women. And that has gotten its own bad reactions, ranging from "Why would anyone want to write for women?" to personal attacks. One guy I critiqued attacked me because he felt I was unqualified to critique his piece because I write for women (never mind that I actually restated differently what other people had also commented on). At my last critique group session, we submitted our query which states "action adventure thriller for women" and ended up with three guys who simply could not deal with that phrase at all. They spent most of our session arguing about that one line and telling us we needed to get rid of all the elements the women readers like.

How do I combat it? I just keep working on the book. I know there's a market for it.

I write science-fiction. A lot of people I chat with say I should switch to romance because it's easy (as if). I told them I don't like romances they either make giggle until my face turns blue or I gag and want to throw it across the room.

I like science-fiction and that's what I'm going to write. Then they are like there is so much money in romance. This is mostly from men who don't read romance if they read at all.

All I can say is you'll just have to get used to it and learn to shrug it off. I've been at this for nearly 20 years and though well known in a couple genres, most people have never heard of me. (Primarily they are not readers.) I accept that as part of the game.

I write in a genre that has a lot of inaccurate assumptions attached, and people usually ask "Oh, then you must like so&so!" (A big guns Name in the genre whose work I can't stand.) I smile and reply, "Oh, heavens no--I'm a MUCH better writer!" (This is true. I AM.)

I've not had anyone be rude to my face as mentioned in other posts here (I have a reputation for ripping off scalps, so that might have to do with it) and hopefully you can avoid similar probs.

No need to get mad at the ignorant, just say it's a genre not related to romance. They won't get that, but if delivered in the right way their eyes will glaze over and they move on or they'll ask where they can buy your book.

One of my best friends, who writes the most nail-biting horror stories, suspense novels that keep you up all night turning pages--tough stuff any way you look at it--looks like she should be hosting a TV quilting show. She has a sweet smiling face and a bright, peppy personality--quite a contrast to the dark stuff she writes.

When people ask "Oh, do you write romance or children's books?" she just cheerfully picks one and moves on. Unless they are seriously interested she leaves them with their illusions.

Get practice in being pleasant about others getting it wrong. Once you're behind the signing table it is considered bad form to leap across and strangle some trog who didn't bother to read your cover copy.

I never did that.

Never.

And I have plenty of witnesses to vouch for me!

And if you write fantasy, everyone asks if you're going to be the next J.K. Rowling or Tolkien.

IMHO, the responses like the ones described in this thread come from people just not knowing what to say. People tend to reach for the easiest assumption when confronted with something unusual, like someone telling them about being a writer or an artist.

I try to think of the other person's first reaction as a starter for a conversation. It doesn't really matter what the first words are as long as they express interest. My goal is not to expect people to be telepathic and already know what I do. Instead, I want them to understand after I've had a chance to talk to them and explain.

IrishScribbler said:

Have any other women's fiction writers run into this? For you romance writers out there....what stereotypes have you run into that you're trying to combat?

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I really don't mind that people think I write romance (because I do). What I *do* mind is when they suggest that I'm writing 'dirty' books or 'smutty' books because, obviously, my only goal in mind must be to get the characters to boink.

Linda Adams said:

They spent most of our session arguing about that one line and telling us we needed to get rid of all the elements the women readers like.

How do I combat it? I just keep working on the book. I know there's a market for it.

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As if males are the default readers for thrillers or adventure!
My latest book is suspense, and it is most definitely targeted at women. Though I hope men will read it as well. But I hate the mind set that says women can, and should, read men's fiction, but only women can read women's fiction.

People tend to simplfy. Romance is easy to grasp. Action Thriller for women or even Women's Fiction is not. If someone pegs you as something and then isn't open to your view of things, they just want to tag you and move on. Or tag you and use that tag to make themselves feel bigger or better.

You should take a page from their Big Chief Tablet and move on. They aren't going to change and you are wasting emotional energy.

I promise this is the case. I have belonged to writers groups and have family memebers that for years call me a Romance writer when I write mainly Women's Fiction. Booksellers tend to do this too. As publishers get glommed together if you end up with one who also pubs Romance and you're a woman you are likely to be treated like a Romance writer (which mean you will sometimes be treated like a kid who sneezed on the mashed potatoes before passing them... not always, other times you'll be treated like mashed potato sneezing kid who still has snot hanging out of her nose) by booksellers and other writers and snobby readers.
Recently I got this treatment at a Barnes and Noble because I went in in advance of the release and they looked up the book and she actually handed the book back to me and said, "Oh, it's a Harlequin." It's a Steeple HIll, the Insp. imprint but...

But the funny thing is this same store was very happy to have me sign stock this summer for a book (also a Harl imprint, MIRA) that was a table placement. Only I came in when they had a dozen copies out already and they never checked the publisher.

No matter what you do, this stuff happens.
annie jones (Sisterhood of the Queen Mamas - out now - "Engaging... Laugh out Loud funny" -Publisher's Weekly.)

IrishScribbler said:

I guess as someone who is trying to break down stereotypes through my WIP, I'm trying to break down stereotypes everywhere.

I know I can't always, but I try nonetheless.

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Breaking down sterotypes requires a chink in the wall where you can place your chisel. Having the other person express interest in your work, no matter if the first question sounds inane to your ears, is that chink. Now apply hammer.

I don't worry about people who don't like romance.

When I was a wee pup of an editor just beginning to work on my own projects, I inherited an author of eco-thrillers from a departing senior editor. The author was a gruff, curmudgeonly fellow who clearly had reservations about a woman editing his he-man adventures (which featured a "maverick scientist" of some sort). Happily, his reluctance was overcome during our first editorial conversation, when I told him, "Your body count is too low, and not gross enough. Could you kill some people more horribly somewhere?"

People do tend to stereotype a writer if one reveals one is a romance writer. I have written some non-fiction articles and have co-authored two non-fiction books. Now, I'm working on a couple of romantic suspense ideas. When I mentioned that to a non-writer friend, she immediately assumed I was going to write "bodice-rippers" with lots and lots of graphic sex...geez!

A writer friend (non-fiction travel) says writers put their writing out there in the public and the public feels free to bash it to death in any manner they desire. He says he just tries to improve his writing with every project, look at the constructive criticism from his editors (and from the few-and-far-between readers who are able to criticize constructively) and learn from it. He tries to ignore the rest of the criticism, though he says it still hurts. After all, he says, your writing projects are your babies and you want to defend them with all your might. You hurt when someone attacks your babies, but you have to get past it and do the best writing you can.

I try to take his advice, though it's difficult to ignore the nay-sayers. I won't let them stop me!

Don't let the negative, nonconstructive criticism keep you from writing! Forge on!

One thing I don't mention in my department ever is that I write romance...especially not erotic romance! Why? Because in my novels course, and in my theory course, talk often turns to romance-with-a-little-r as "low" culture, people who read it are less educated, it doesn't deserve the same consideration as other books, they're not really novels, etc etc. What it comes down to is a real disdain for the people who write and read those books.

So I keep it to myself. Even when I sell something and I'm very excited, I don't share it with anybody. Of course, that level of snobbishness is not only expected in a grad department, it's probably necessary. If there wasn't a division between high and low culture, what would we be doing there anyway? But still, it makes me uncomfortable---not because I feel insulted, but because I don't thinking of my audience as a bunch of illiterate fools.