Define my Genre(s) for me?

A nonfiction work about the underlying meaning of tarot. It is not speculative or subjective, just facts. I don't want to say spiritual because it's absolutely not Newage, dream of sweet things. It's not a history, or how to lay out the cards. It's the tarot as a systematic explanation of knowledge. The ongoing narrative along with explanations of the system is often in-your-face, although it's tongue-in-cheek type humour and not personal. I hope that's enough information for a genre judgement.

2/ (Helping me with the tarot genre question alone would be terrific)... Anyway, 2/ Fiction, 3rd person. A love story set late Regency that bucks at today's assumptions of romance. EG, the handsome guy thinks he might be gay. The heroine is a psychopath who carves her way through several characters towards her hero. Bears a child on the way. It has elements of Chick-lit, but naturally her niggles are 19thCentury. Having said that the heroine, a lady, English, closeted as they were, suffers the teeth grinding frustrations of those days, while the poor and gentlemen did what the hell they pleased.

So I've gone for realisim and she's always asking herself who she is--but it's not an excuse to espouse feminist ideals or any ideals, and the asking herself is in no way spiritual either, but Chick-lit or day to day.

Along the way there are child prostitutes, (no details obviously!) slaves, hangings, riots, but it's a backdrop familiar to her, (EG, as traffic lights and muggers are familiar to us). She has her life, the story.

I thought, mainstream/literary? Adventure, travel, off-beat romance, Chick-lit, Regency has an unprofessional ring to it I thought...

ORION said:

Boy there are a lot of tarot books out there. I just picked one up at borders and there were literally three shelves of them. What is different about yours?
Are you saying you have 2 books? One fiction and one nonfiction?
Have you read The linnet bird? Sounds like yours is similar-
Look it up on amazon.

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Thanks, yes two books.

The first, my fiction, mainstream/literary (maybe???) not The Linnet Bird. My characters are more proactive. They have more control. They're more vicious, which is not to say they aren't 100% ladies. (It's a trilogy but I was actually only addressing the first MSS,' genre, which has one heroine. The second two MSS' examine more proactive women and ladies, so it's a saga--a story about heroines and travel. And I mean heroines and saga in the sense of the old Norse. The tales are heroic.) Oops, got carried away, but my heroines aren't like men, no, they are most definitely women, and ladies.

So the first story in the trilogy is about a lady breaking out from the constrictions of gentility, but not in England; in her travels. As a lady she tempers her insanity, but it breaks out when anyone crosses her, and they do cross her. So probably--mainstream/literary. It's my best guess.

The tarot? Send it to an agent/publisher and they have the same reaction as you, Orion. The world is awash with tarot, so they switch off. Science has or will have the explanations and everything else is fantasy. So why's mine different? They don't get that far. Anyway, as I said, mine is about facts. Not new facts, it's the same old, same old, but it simplifies all knowledge to three little facts, which is what the tarot and mysticism even, have always been about, facts. To a point then, the tarot is a knowledge machine. I'll have to perfect my pitch, that's all, but I would like some help with genre, an approach, something, anything.

So the tarot MSS is not speculative. It offers no allusions. It explains explicitly what the weird symbols, wands, pentragrams, pyramids and stuff mean relative to now, the 21stCentury. It shows that the weird symbols have definite places in a coherent system that explains the nature of knowledge. For those reasons, it's different.

Thanks again, Orion, I hope that clarifies for you my question about genre and maybe you can help me out. I've pretty well repeated what I've already said, so chances are I'm missing the point you are making, Orion. Sorry.

soloset said:

Wouldn't the tarot one be non-fiction, then? And the only non-fiction section I've ever seen tarot in is the New Age section. Right next to the books on developing your own ESP and ghosts.
As far as an angle, well, what does your book offer that the others don't? Does it appeal to something you've seen people debating on one of the big tarot forums?
For the other one, you could always try historical fiction or mainstream (which is where all the historical fiction at our local Borders seems to be shelved). Your protagonist doesn't sound like she'd appeal to your usual romance reader, but who knows.

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Thanks, Soloset and certainly it's often suggested that one looks at store bookshelves, so that I'm feeling rather embarrassed for not. Duh me, but I guess have an excuse. Isolated at our location, I haven't been into a bookshop for years, but duh again because we have Amazon.com, blush. I was only reading the other day that everything in publishing is centred on readers and there's nothing closer to readers than basic darn bookshelves! So thanks Soloset for saving me from myself.

I've turned up a likely agent who's pro tarot genre, well, similar books, a task I hadn't managed before.

As for the heroine/novel, it's mainstream/historical, I guess--and as you say regarding her appeal, who knows. Either way, I'm going to have to refine my pitch. I'm starting to like the challenge of pitching, whereas for a long time the whole publishing/agent thing was a haze that irritated me.

Yep, Orion, you sound like my submission results Seriously, your honesty is very valuable to me. When I first started writing fiction, I hunted everywhere for opinions. They were sweetness until I badgered someone beyond their tether, and they said, IT'S BORING!

That was a big turning point in my writing. And Soloset's bookshelves was another for me submission-wise --suddenly the haze cleared.

Orion said, submissions= couple of sentences. Setup, Hook, Resolution (Jillian Manus, www.manuslit.com). Her example gives a ramble about a story, something like my ramble, but then she cuts that down to the ideal pitch, setup, hook, resolution.

Tarotwise I refer to the Marseilles pack. I show how tarot is a system for explaining knowledge. The system explains how maths, for example, all maths--it's entire history too and even complex maths can be explained in a single sentence I hope you didn't have a mouthful of coffee when you read this. Here I am taking lessons on genre --Orion complaining I can't make myself understood. (Where's that sceptic's manual?!)

I'll have a look at Llewellyn's catalogue too. Renault and Cornwell you say? Oooh my descriptions of my work are that bad, argh! But after writing for a year and emerging recently, I had trouble constucting sentences and making contiguously sensible paragraphs. (Curiously, writing my MSSs' hadn't been a problem, (you think? ). Crazy, but anyway I'm recovering.

So does it make sense so far?

Hey, you've both done enough and in your way, you've been kind and helpful. Thanks to you both.

ORION said:

No

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Oh crap, I'm doomed. Is that a yes?

Thanks for the exorcism!

Yeah, I slung it together. But usually my single paragraph synopsis' are about 20,000 words, so think yourself lucky.

jamiehall said:

It sounds like it is a fresh angle - not New Age, not an objective, scholarly history, and not a how-to. Of course, it'll almost certainly end up being shelved with the other Tarot books - in the New Age section - and there might be problems with people expecting it to be New Age, an objective history, or a how-to and then being upset they bought it.

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Thank you for that insight. You've helped clarify my mullings, as I've mulled it over. As you say, and Soloset says, it's seems there's only the New Age book section. But disappointment, no. I know the subject backwards, so wands, pyramids etc are a system of tarot and this is how it works, shouldn't disappoint. How to see the future and the nature of destiny are part of the system as well.

Bookshelf and agentwise, I need the New Age. I've joined a tarot forum, but scanning their posts, I fell dozing on my mousepad--has a soft wrist rest, ahhh. Joining a few of associations will improve my bio.

Make sense? Oh why can't the New Age be like Orion, darn it!

Thanks y'all!

soloset said:

You could also try cultural anthropology, metaphysics, or general religion, depending on your angle.

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I appreciate your input. My MSS can only be New Age. Simplifying the diversity of knowledge via tarot involves science, but only as examples of their facts. I can't say cultural anthropology any more than I can say it's quantum mechanics. I can only say briefly how they work in the system and refer the readers elsewhere for further examples.

General Religion? oooh, no. Again they're just sources of examples. So suppose there is a single rule consistent in all of the above, that's what the MSS is about. But my pitch must be New Age nonfiction because it's about the tarot, even though my MSS is objective and factual. New Age nonfiction is a contradiction in terms, because most of it requires the suspension of belief. Mine requires no suspension, but saying it is one rule consistent in everything does invite disbelief. Saying it's New Age solves all that nicely.

So New Age, here we come. Yep, it's about refining my pitches, defining my markets, nailing my genres, not necessarily in that order. Your insights are so appreciated!