View Full Version : What do I write!!! Tell me PLEASE!
I thought Young Adult was 15 - 17 but have recently read that YA is 12 - 14 and it specifically mentioned 6th grade. Gads, I wouldn't hand my book to a sixth grade class so I guess I was mistaken thinking I would have any of the YA market.
I have said I write Horror, but it the genre is so vast and I hate being lumped with living marsh goo and high school lockers filled with young girl body parts.
My completed work skirts the fringes of New Age philosophies and deals with simple paranormal related abilities (seeing auras, and astral projection). It is about an 18 year old girl trying to stop her boyfriend from killing people. The thing is, he was vastly dismembered in a motorcycle crash with a tree. He isn't a ghost traditionally. He simply leaped from his body just before it was destroyed. He wreaks his havoc from within the wood of the tree he collided with.
What is the YA age range?
Where does Thriller/Suspense stop and Horror begin? I've seen a lot of guidelines where they accept thriller and not horror. What's the difference?
Willowmound
12-02-2006, 04:07 AM
I'd venture, 'it doesn't matter', but I'm sure I'll be shouted down shortly.
Little Red Barn
12-02-2006, 04:09 AM
What is it called for high school? I too thought YA is teen. Your's sounds more like 7th grade on...Can you change your chrac age to 17? just a thought
Someone will probably be along shortly, kimmi
Little Red Barn
12-02-2006, 04:18 AM
Ok Del, I went to Wikipedia..it states young adult books are 12-18! I just punched in define YA books...
Go and take a peek..I don't know how to copy paste etc..
Ok went back again, and the American Library Assoc defines this, but go there Del its interesting and has a section for YA genre. Just punch in Young Adult Literature @ wikipedia
hugs kimmi
I'd venture, 'it doesn't matter', but I'm sure I'll be shouted down shortly.
If you want to submit properly without wasting anyone's time then it does matter.
I think it important to know how agent/publishers define market and genre though it seems to vary among establishments.
Ok Del, I went to Wikipedia..it states young adult books are 12-18!
That is way too broad. I can't see where a 12 year old would be interested in the same book as an 18 year old. Wow, talk about different interests.
Willowmound
12-02-2006, 04:53 AM
But if your story could be considered either thriller, horror or YA, then submit to publishers that take either of those genres.
Genre is, after all, very much about what label the publisher ends up slapping on it.
That's what I mean when I say, 'it doesn't matter'.
icerose
12-02-2006, 04:56 AM
That is way too broad. I can't see where a 12 year old would be interested in the same book as an 18 year old. Wow, talk about different interests.
Even so it's the same market lump to the bean counters.
Young adult range last I heard was the 12-18.
loquax
12-02-2006, 04:57 AM
The way i see it, "young adult" is a genre as opposed to a target age-range. Most kids read adult books as well as books targeted at them. A thirteen year old kid would jump at the chance to read a steven king novel (I know I did).
But if your story could be considered either thriller, horror or YA, then submit to publishers that take either of those genres.
Genre is, after all, very much about what label the publisher ends up slapping on it.
That's what I mean when I say, 'it doesn't matter'.
Ok. I'll grant you that. As I said, it varies. Still, isn't there some industry standard? Or is it all up to personal preference and assuming if it says no horror that it doesn't include me.
Little Red Barn
12-02-2006, 05:02 AM
one more thought Del, call your book store manager and see how they group the books for Young Adult..I know I take my daugh to the childrens section, she's 16 but within that is an area for YA.
Sorry Wickipedia didn't help, kimmi
The way i see it, "young adult" is a genre as opposed to a target age-range. Most kids read adult books as well as books targeted at them. A thirteen year old kid would jump at the chance to read a steven king novel (I know I did).
Yeah, me too. But is it appropriate to assume that market when the book probably wouldn't pass parental permission?
I'd let my 16 year old daughter read it but not my 14 year old. (BTW, I have no daughters. Just an example...if I had)
one more thought Del, call your book store manager and see how they group the books for Young Adult..I know I take my daugh to the childrens section, she's 16 but within that is an area for YA.
Sorry Wickipedia didn't help, kimmi
Thanks Kimmi. The effort is always appreciated.
icerose
12-02-2006, 05:09 AM
Childrens is 0-12, then it is broken down into several sub catagories, picture book, early reader, chapter book and so forth, but it is still all children fiction.
The same goes for young adult. If your catagory is horror, then it is horror whether it is young adult or adult and plan accordingly. If they say young adult but no horror, that probably says, you, yes you, we're not interested.
Childrens is 0-12, then it is broken down into several sub catagories, picture book, early reader, chapter book and so forth, but it is still all children fiction.
The same goes for young adult. If your catagory is horror, then it is horror whether it is young adult or adult and plan accordingly. If they say young adult but no horror, that probably says, you, yes you, we're not interested.
I guess I am confusing the issue having asked two questions at once. And I don't know if I write horror or could pass as thriller.
Everyone is always saying how overwhelmed submissions are and how often "dumb" writers send to the wrong market and waste their time. I'd like to understand it and do my part in easing the effort. And I don't want to come across as dumb...although that might be unavoidable. :rolleyes:
icerose
12-02-2006, 06:12 AM
Sometimes nailing down the genre is one of the harder tasks, especially if your story is running along the boarder. What would be fantasy/sci fi to me (Michael Critchon (sp)) is Mainstream fiction to the publisher because it all comes down to audience. I would leave it has mainstream young adult and let the agent/publisher figure it out. However if they are stating that they do not accept scary/dark/horror type stories than I would submit elsewhere first.
maddythemad
12-02-2006, 08:49 AM
Delarege, it sounds like you're writing YA. The good news is, YA is one of the hottest genres right now. Now, if you want to call it "YA horror" or "YA mystery" or whatever, go right ahead.
And best of luck to you! :D
Bartholomew
12-02-2006, 09:46 AM
Write what your heart tells you; figure out who to sell it to when you're done.
blacbird
12-02-2006, 09:52 AM
The good news is, YA is one of the hottest genres right now.
Which means it might not be next month. Write the story you need to write. If you're trying to fit a "market", you're probably doomed. Which doesn't necessarily mean you might not be doomed anyway, but it won't help to be trying to write something you don't like to write.
caw
ChaosTitan
12-02-2006, 05:18 PM
YA has a pretty healthy horror section. I was reading RL Stine and Christopher Pike at 12 and 13, until I discovered Stephen King.
While I would not use wikipedia as a final source of anything (since anyone can create or add to a definition), I imagine YA covers a wide array of ages. Not every teen reads comfortably at the same level. Just because I was reading adult novels at 14 doesn't mean that a child of 17 isn't still reading from the YA section.
Shadow_Ferret
12-02-2006, 06:45 PM
..I don't know how to copy paste etc..
Just because it's early morning, I haven't had enough coffee, I think I'll be a smart alec. ;)
To copy, you highlight the text, (if it's the url, highlight that in the address bar,) go to Edit and Select Copy (or in the case of the address bar, right click and select Copy from the dropdown menu).
Then when you Reply and are typing your message, go up to Edit and Select Paste and there is your link.
No need to thank me. ;)
sfecphory
12-02-2006, 06:50 PM
I'm curious about why you want to be able to label your writing so badly as YA or anything else. If you are going to query agents you can say, "I wrote this targeting reader between the ages of X and Y. This is a paranormal story with A, B and C elements that should appeal to readers ages X and older." If an agent is a good agent they will read your work and recognize who the best target audience is. Don't worry about labels, worry about your work.
Julie Worth
12-02-2006, 06:59 PM
I had the idea my latest book was leaning toward literary. But when I ran the Word grammar checker, it said the grade level was 4. And then a kid in the second grade--not exactly a top student, BTW--picked it up and read the first five pages aloud, without a single mistake.
Dang it.
So I changed the genre to commercial/adult.
Cathy C
12-02-2006, 07:02 PM
Personally, I'd shoot for the adult horror market for it. 18 years old is right on the border, and you'll find a wider market in the adult range (Remember that "It", the horror novel by Stephen King, was an adult book, even though the main characters are only 12-14.)
Good luck with it! :)
Jamesaritchie
12-02-2006, 11:00 PM
Don't know whether this helps, but the largest market, by far, for YA is the teenage girl market, and this really impacts what young adult really is. By and large, most readers want protagonists who are their age, or a year or two older, and of the same gender.
In the children's writing I do, my protagonists are usually twelve or thirteen, and the books are considered middle grade, not YA.
Theme also plays a part in teh classification, so if the theme revolves around the more serious issues young adults face, sex, drugs, pregnancy, etc., then your book is will be classified as YA, rather than middle grade. How the theme is handled, of course, also plays a part.
At any rate, no one I've written for classifies sixth grade, or the ages 12-14, as YA. Sixth, seventh, and eighth grade, which is where I do 90% of my children's writing, has always been classified as middle grade, not YA.
Zolah
12-02-2006, 11:47 PM
That is way too broad. I can't see where a 12 year old would be interested in the same book as an 18 year old. Wow, talk about different interests.
Incorrect. An eight year old with an advanced reading age will probably enjoy a book which could also be of interest to an eighteen year old reluctant reader with a low reading age. Examples: 'China Garden' by Liz Berry, 'The Song of the Lioness Series' by Tamora Pierce, 'The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents' by Terry Pratchett.
There are also looooooads of YA books which push the boundaries of what themes and scenes children's books can successfully tackle: M.T. Anderson's 'Thirsty', Melvin Burgesses 'Blood Tide', Garth Nix's 'Old Kingdom Trilogy'.
To be honest, your question gives me the impression that you haven't read widely enough in your chosen age range. You need to become so familiar with the sorts of YA books which are being published today that you can tell, INSTINCTIVELY, what crosses the line and what only challenges it in an intriguing and acceptable fashion. My advice would be to read the books I've listed above as a start, and then go on reading in the YA category as you research and write your own YA novel. Then you'll not only be reading some cracking literature, you'll also be educating yourself on your future genre so that you can talk intelligently to your potential agents and publishers and tell them how and why your book will fit into the hot YA market.
I would like our works to stand on their own merit. But it is never going to happen. The publishing entity is vast and varied as is the opinion/advise on AW. The public won't be permitted to judge you until you pass through the editorial sieve which can be bias.
I had heard agents use the submitter's ability to identify their market as an indication of their knowledge of the industry which would influence their decision. I've had this illusion that if I failed to cross a T it was cause for rejection. I will consider my MS YA-Thriller and leave it at that.
There is a lot of conflict in the 'how tos' and the 'what fors' and there seems no 'right way' to submit. All we can do is clog the machine with massive queries and subs. We can do our best to 'feel' the flavor any particular agency may want but in the end all we can do is cross our fingers.
Thanks.
YA often can be synomynous with teen, but there are definitely books that target younger YA audiences & ones that target older ones. There's also a middle grade audience that publishers look at (12-14, I think). I'd check out some of the threads on the YA subforum of the Children's forum for more discussion on targetting certain YA age groups & what's acceptable for what age. There's several threads there about those topics.
anodyne
12-14-2006, 09:01 PM
For libraries at least, YA is defined as 13-18 :) Can't tell you more than that.
Odile
02-01-2007, 11:16 PM
Differences between children can be very big. I have a child of 13, and she probably can read your book without problems. She is a reader and can read a massive book in a few hours.
I think my son of 8 years might enjoy horror stories, but I'm not going to try it. I prefer to wait. I can imagine that some children of 14 years cannot read horror because they might react adversely to it, or more likely, they don't enjoy reading.
Cassiopeia
02-02-2007, 12:11 AM
I would be very careful with relying on Wikipedia for accurate information. Information is submitted by anyone and can be editted by anyone. So I would look to a publishing house for the answer to that question.
Wikipedia is a good starting place if you're looking for something. Yeah, anyone can edit it but then, an error isn't going to stand long. There is always another expert coming down the road.
But I say starting place. Its terms and links can begin a very informative search. You can't take anything on the web for gospel. I always cross reference through a variety of sources; hardcopies and persons of experience.
Cassiopeia
02-02-2007, 01:19 AM
Wikipedia is a good starting place if you're looking for something. Yeah, anyone can edit it but then, an error isn't going to stand long. There is always another expert coming down the road.
I am sorry but how soon that expert comes along down that road is unpredictable and I would absolutely NOT use Wikipedia as a reliable source until they bother getting a staff that does nothing but correct the errors.
It would be more accurate to call Wikipedia...Opinionipedia. I also used to use it until a university professor came outright and told us that she would not allow any references to be based off the site and went on for a half hour as to why that is and why we mustn't believe everything we read on the WWW. She was not the first to give that lecture to me and I am sure I will be treated to it again.
It isn't a good place to start at all. If you want to be certain of your facts there are plenty of other online resources that will be much more reliable.
I am not aiming this at you...so please don't misunderstand...we become lazy when we rely on any one particular source. Particularly if we think that source is accurate when it can not be determined just how reliable it really is.
I recommend as I said before...contact a publishing house...talk to the librarian...ask a literature instructor...but do NOT ...do NOT rely on one internet resource.
TwentyFour
02-02-2007, 01:32 AM
My son reads R.L.Stine and Goosebumps, not to mention ghost stories and books I had from my past.
I recently picked up a huge box of books from my mom's house and it had Daniel Cohen ghost stories. He loved the Pirate ships ghosts like (ole spongebobs favorite ghost) The Flying Dutchman. He didn't know it was once a real boat.
But I say starting place. Its terms and links can begin a very informative search. You can't take anything on the web for gospel. I always cross reference through a variety of sources; hardcopies and persons of experience.
It isn't a good place to start at all. If you want to be certain of your facts there are plenty of other online resources that will be much more reliable.
I am not aiming this at you...so please don't misunderstand...we become lazy when we rely on any one particular source. Particularly if we think that source is accurate when it can not be determined just how reliable it really is.
I recommend as I said before...contact a publishing house...talk to the librarian...ask a literature instructor...but do NOT ...do NOT rely on one internet resource.
Forgive me if I caused anyone to misunderstand. I meant I have found TERMS and such on Wikipedia that lead me to OTHER sites that I would not have found without the term. Not only do I not recommend relying on one source, I do not recommend relying on the web alone.
Still, if you are a layman and need to begin an education on lingo and such, Wikipedia can give you some key phrases that might narrow your search. As I said, it is a reasonable starting place. Just do't stop there.
Ultamately, there is little that can beat your public library.
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