Mug em or seduce em?

Lindo · Nov 30, 2006

I've been running into something a lot lately...another of those things that makes some sort of sense in screenwriting, but is questionable in a novel. Namely that you have to grab people in the first chapter or page or paragraph or whatever. Leap out there with sex, violence, or whatever grabs people or they won't read on.

Well, that seems like a crock to me. The great books of literature aren't like that. They sort of assume that you're reading the book for a reason and won't toss it away in boredom if they build up a little character and atmosphere.

I don't get it (as I don't so many pronouncements from the field that contradict stark reality). Maybe it's another one of those things foisted off by the drones that read manuscripts before the agents and publishers get hold of them. This is certainly the case with screenplays. Actually great films...and a lot of even current films like "Babel"...saunter in casually, slowly seducing the viewer instead of mugging us in the first minute. But with NOVELS????

I'm particularly puzzling about this over my current marketing nightmare, a book that relies strongly on humor from a character's writing...but it takes awhile to get there. It's not exactly snoring exposition along the way, but the real meat of it comes later. Problem is, how to make a damn agent read it.

I'm sure you've run into it. They want first three chapters or first 50 pages or whatever and just REFUSE to look at midbook stuff because it's probably some scam you're pulling or something. So should you move all your guns to the first chapter to please them? Or what? Anybody had any luck getting somebody to read the first chapter, then some strong ones from later once war actually breaks out or the comic relief character is introduced or whatever?

Any thoughts on all this, anyone?

CrankItTo11 · Nov 30, 2006

I've always heard that you've got to hook them in early. If the reader isn't interested and excited after the first couple of pages, you have probably lost that reader (or agent or editor).

Of course, you can easliy hook a reader (well... depending on the audience) if start the novel with violence, sex, or some shocking plot device... but you don't have to. You can also keep readers reading by introducing a fascinating character, an interesting and unusal setting or situation, etc.

I guess I am saying that you shouldn't feel limited that a hook has to be dramatic or violent. But...there does need to be a hook of some sort. You have to give the reader some motivation to turn the page.

Just my two cents... which may be worth less than two cents.

UrsusMinor · Nov 30, 2006

There's a lot of books out there. The opening pages--hell the opening paragraph--must offer something that draws me in, or (unless the book has been strongly recommended by a friend I trust), I will move on to something else.

It isn't a matter of opening with sex or violence (as if either is hard to come by these days!). It is, frankly, mostly a matter of situation, voice, or both. Either I have to be intrigued by what seems to be happening, or beguiled by the writers words.

Many great books take time to build, it is true. But the voices of "Moby Dick" or "Bleak House" or "The Great Gatsby" or "The Sun Also Rises" or "Pride and Prejudice" or "Bel Canto" or "Paradise" or "Blue Angel" or "THe Stranger" had me riveted from the moment I looked at the first page.

engmajor2005 · Nov 30, 2006

I agree that there has to be a hook, but I also agree that the hook doesn't have to be a violent act or a nasty sex scene. I like the kind of "oh sh!t" hooks; the one that pops to mind most readily is the one from the Harrison Ford movie Air Force One: where the Secret Service agent just kind of casually whips out his gun and caps the other two agents, screaming to the audience that something bad is about to happen--real bad.

However, the hook doesn't have to be violent or shocking; the realization of just what the golden ring was in front of Frodo's fireplace was a hook after all. And yes, the hook has to be early, matter what the hook is.

rugcat · Nov 30, 2006

I think there’s a difference between genre and literary fiction.

Both have their conventions. If you’re writing a thriller, well, you sort of have to thrill your reader - nobody’s going to wait until page 57 for the mayhem to start. If you’re writing about a failing marriage in Connecticut (and if you are, you’d better be a damn good writer) the reader will cut you a lot more slack, giving you time for character development and such, trusting there will eventually be a payoff and it’ll be worth it.

There are also different expectations for an established writer. If the reader knows and likes your work, he or she will give you every chance. If you’re an unknown and after 20 pages the reader is bored, you’re toast.

veinglory · Nov 30, 2006

I'm all for mugging the blighters before they get a chance to put my book back on the display.

triceretops · Nov 30, 2006

I've been labled a slow starter with the past five books. But then I speed shift and pick up the pace without letup. I also give too much away. I'm learning to plant some mystery in the front pages and work on my voice/style that will set me apart. I'm trying a little word-smithing without being obvious about it. Beginnings are tough. From here on out I'm not going to info dump or backstory in the first chapter.

Tri

LunarMoon · Nov 30, 2006

The beginning of a book doesn’t need to be rife with sex and violence in order to hold interest though it most definitely requires some sort of hook in the form of an interesting plot, unanswered questions, or intriguing characters. If the opening of your book doesn’t hook the reader chances are they aren’t going to get to the rest. Typical practice is to start at the latest possible point of the intro and recount the back-story in flashbacks. For example if the main character is drafted into a war yet the story can be said to start somewhere in his childhood it would be best to start from the point where he receives the draft note to stir dramatic conflict or even begin in the heat of battle (as said before, not necessary). The main character’s childhood relation with his war buddy can be recounted afterwards in a choice moment.

blackbird · Nov 30, 2006

I like stories that build gradually and take their time. I can't care about whatever big dramatic thing is supposed to happen to the characters until I have some amount of caring invested in them. So what I'm usually looking for in the first few pages is an indication that these are people I'll want to stick with for the long haul. If the writer can supply me with enough ample evidence to believe that, then I'll usually stick around.

It may be helpful to think of it this way: don't start with "The Big Bang" but a bang-a mini-conflict of some sort that will get the story rolling. Then it's okay to go back and create the buildup for the real bang to come later. This is a method that I've seen played out time and again, and it almost always works-for literary fiction, anyway.

TrickyFiction · Nov 30, 2006

For me, it's always the voice that is the most important initial hook. I don't think an awesome voice can carry a story ALL on its own, but almost. Whenever I see a story that starts out with sex or a body or whatever, I think it must be compensating for something.

Gillhoughly · Nov 30, 2006

Lindo said:
The great books of literature aren't like that.

Indeed--but they were written in eras where the readers weren't offered distractions like iPods, vid games, cell phones, and cable TV.

Today's readers are a teeny bit demanding about the material before they plonk cash down to buy someone's words. There are writers who get that, so they do what they can to make their stuff as interesting as possible from the start.

They want first three chapters or first 50 pages or whatever and just REFUSE to look at midbook stuff because it's probably some scam you're pulling or something.

That is so they can see if the writer can WRITE. Even slow opening bits can be made fascinating when done right. Most bookstore browsers will open the first page. If you can't hook 'em, they won't buy, neither will the agent.

So should you move all your guns to the first chapter to please them?

If it will make a sale for you, why not?

If you've not done so already you might want to check the Snarkives from the Miss Snark blog, where she addresses in detail why agents want the first fifty pages.

There's another of her famous Crap-o-Meter contests coming up where you submit a query letter and the first 500 words for all to view and critique. It is only for those with a thick hide and a desire to learn, though.

Sounds like you're rather frustrated by a string of passes from agents and editors, but stay at it. Over a two year period while shopping it around I had to rewrite my first chapter about 25 times and the whole book twice over before I got it right. On a typewriter. Typos and White Out and carbons, oh my!

Good luck!

Simon Woodhouse · Nov 30, 2006

I've never paid too much attention to creating a hook. I'd rather tell the story I want to tell over the course of the whole book. If I have to tailor the beginning to fit a certain sort of scenario, it'll affect what happens all the way through the rest of the story. I try to make sure something interesting happens in the first chapter, but that goes for every other chapter as well.

I've often heard it said it's important to know your audience. Perhaps mine will be the sort that aren't after instant gratification, but would rather stay the course and feel just as satisfied after the last page as they did after the first.

kristie911 · Nov 30, 2006

As a reader, I don't need death, sex or general mayham in the first couple of pages, but there had better be something damned interesting to make me keep reading. It can just be an interesting character, voice or situation but something HAS to make me keep reading.

Shadow_Ferret · Nov 30, 2006

As Gillhoughly pointed out, there wasn't much else to do back when the "classics" were written. Now there are many, many things competing for my entertainment dollar, movies, television, videogames, sporting events, theater, concerts, and such. If I'm picking up books and scanning them at the bookstore, the one that interests me from the git go is the one I'm going to walk out of there with. You don't want to hook me? That's fine, this nice book next to your's on the shelf just did.

SpookyWriter · Nov 30, 2006

What are fellow writers saying? What do you think readers will say?

I've always heard that you've got to hook them in early.

The opening pages--hell the opening paragraph--must offer something that draws me in, or (unless the book has been strongly recommended by a friend I trust), I will move on to something else.

I agree that there has to be a hook, but I also agree that the hook doesn't have to be a violent act or a nasty sex scene.

If you’re writing a thriller, well, you sort of have to thrill your reader - nobody’s going to wait until page 57 for the mayhem to start.

The beginning of a book doesn’t need to be rife with sex and violence in order to hold interest though it most definitely requires some sort of hook in the form of an interesting plot, unanswered questions, or intriguing characters.

So what I'm usually looking for in the first few pages is an indication that these are people I'll want to stick with for the long haul. If the writer can supply me with enough ample evidence to believe that, then I'll usually stick around.

For me, it's always the voice that is the most important initial hook. I don't think an awesome voice can carry a story ALL on its own, but almost. Whenever I see a story that starts out with sex or a body or whatever, I think it must be compensating for something.

As a reader, I don't need death, sex or general mayham in the first couple of pages, but there had better be something damned interesting to make me keep reading. It can just be an interesting character, voice or situation but something HAS to make me keep reading.

Euan H. · Nov 30, 2006

Lindo said:
Namely that you have to grab people in the first chapter or page or paragraph or whatever. Leap out there with sex, violence, or whatever grabs people or they won't read on.

I think you do have to hook people early--but it doesn't have to be done with sex and violence. Like Ursus said, there are plenty of things that can grab.

and won't toss it away in boredom of they build up a little character and atmosphere

But it has to be interesting character and atmosphere building. And not just interesting in the sense that it'll be interesting or necessary later on; it's got to be interesting right at that very moment when the reader (knowing nothing else about the story) reads it for the first time.

If it's interesting, then there's your hook. If it ain't, well, rewrite it so it is.

Me said:
I think you do have to hook people early--but it doesn't have to be done with sex and violence.

Mind you, having said that, I'm all for sex and violence on the first page.

aruna · Nov 30, 2006

Euan H. said:
I think you do have to hook people early--but it doesn't have to be done with sex and violence. Like Ursus said, there are plenty of things that can grab.

But it has to be interesting character and atmosphere building. And not just interesting in the sense that it'll be interesting or necessary later on; it's got to be interesting right at that very moment when the reader (knowing nothing else about the story) reads it for the first time.

I agree totally. I was a bit worried because though I knew my first chapter feels "right", it doesn't have any fireworks; it introduces the MC and the antagonist, forshadows terribke things to come, and establishes the location. I told my agent about my concern and she said she loved that first chapter, and so did one of her colleagues.

zornhau · Dec 1, 2006

Simon Woodhouse said:
I've often heard it said it's important to know your audience. Perhaps mine will be the sort that aren't after instant gratification, but would rather stay the course and feel just as satisfied after the last page as they did after the first.

But then, that's your hook! :roll:

The hook is just a promise. It doesn't need to be gratifying in itself. Rather, it has to make the reader read on. To hook them.

Openings by established writers can have lazy starts because the reader already trusts them to deliver something worth the read.

BruceJ · Dec 1, 2006

Hurry, hurry!

Shadow_Ferret said:
As Gillhoughly pointed out, there wasn't much else to do back when the "classics" were written. Now there are many, many things competing for my entertainment dollar, movies, television, videogames, sporting events, theater, concerts, and such. If I'm picking up books and scanning them at the bookstore, the one that interests me from the git go is the one I'm going to walk out of there with. You don't want to hook me? That's fine, this nice book next to your's on the shelf just did.

True enough, albeit unfortunate. (Not pointing toward you with the quote, S-F, just the condition you describe). Society--at least our 21st-century Western society--is very impatient for gratification. Web designers, follow the "rule of three" (no visitors to your Web site should have to drill down any further than three pages to find what they want) guidance, because industry estimates state that the average surfer spends about 12 seconds on any one Web site--unless they find what they want up front. So if the page loads too slowly or is too cumbersome to navigate, the mouse driver is a dot on the horizon before the first jpeg dries. There are so many McDonalds drive-up windows in the entertainment industry (offering the same quality of cerebral nourishment) that aspiring, or even established, writers can't ignore impatience in the target marketplace.

I guess I'm an anomaly. I usually know pretty much what I'm in the mood for when I peruse the bookstore shelf. When I do pull something down, I scan a couple pages (anywhere in the book) to see if I click with the writing style. If the subject and the style are promising, I can wait a few pages for the pique.

NeuroFizz · Dec 1, 2006

This game is all about creating interesting characters and putting them in unusual (or interesting) situations. The initial hook can be emotional--creation of an endearing or irresistable character who has a problem, or is put in a situation that nags us to "find out what happens next." Even if the first chapter has the violent or sexual action, it still has to be interesting and emotionally moving enough to make us want to read on.

The reader has to get a taste of the story in the first chapter. If the flavor is irresistible, the book will sell. But, there are many, many flavors that fall into the category of irrestible. Our challenge is to whip up original flavors in this business.

sfecphory · Dec 1, 2006

Every book needs to give the reader a reason to keep reading. "Hook" is one label given to the various tools writers can use to do this. Kurt Vonnegut uses a tool which he calls "a plot." He said (I forget where, maybe the preface to "Welcome the Monkey House"?) that on the first page you have to have your main character want something so bad that their entire soul is screaming out for it. Even if it's only a glass of water, or getting a speck of dirt from their eye, you have to show them desperate to get that thing. That "want" gets your reader, not nude bodies or shooting guns. I can fill page after page with naked bodies and guns going off, anyone can, but is it interesting? Does it make you want to know "What happens next?"

CaroGirl · Dec 1, 2006

I might have missed it, but I didn't see anyone mention conflict. What I want to see is that there's some kind of conflict, which does not have to be sex or violence, but does have to be interesting in the context of the characters and situation you introduce me to. In the absence of conflict, prose just rambles. I need a direction, a reason to read on, something to interest me. Even inner conflict is something worth investing in, if the character is interesting enough.

BruceJ · Dec 1, 2006

NeuroFizz said:
The reader has to get a taste of the story in the first chapter. If the flavor is irresistible, the book will sell. But, there are many, many flavors that fall into the category of irrestible. Our challenge is to whip up original flavors in this business.

Well said...er, written! A real challenge is accomplishing this with subtlety. I get a rush when an author leads me unwittingly into a climax. You may get the sense something is going on, but you don't see it coming.

Ditto on the need to taste the story. If they can't the chapter is unnecessary--regardless of where it falls in the book.

Jamesaritchie · Dec 1, 2006

Crock

I've been running into something a lot lately...another of those things that makes some sort of sense in screenwriting, but is questionable in a novel. Namely that you have to grab people in the first chapter or page or paragraph or whatever. Leap out there with sex, violence, or whatever grabs people or they won't read on.

Well, that seems like a crock to me. The great books of literature aren't like that. They sort of assume that you're reading the book for a reason and won't toss it away in boredom if they build up a little character and atmosphere.

I agree completely. I think it's nonsense to say a novel has to open with sex, violence, or fast action, just as I think it's nonsense to say people have shorter attention spans now, and other things to draw them away from a novel. Those who want to read will read, if you give them good writing and good story. Those who want to spend their time playing games, etc., will do so no matter what you give them in a book.

Most peole play games, watch movies, etc., because they don't like to read. Most people never did like to read, even a hundred or two hundred years ago. Those same people aren't going to spend their time reading today.

Yes, there are those who prefer fast action, sex and violence on the first page. There always were such people. A hundred years ago they read dime novels. So what?

Good story and good characters still draw plenty of readers, and do so without the silliness of putting sex and violence on the first page.

icerose · Dec 1, 2006

I think it's silly to say it has to open with violence or sex. Most of my favorite books began with a good writing voice. Writing that is gripping and draws the reader in will do better in the long run than a stack of bodies.

However, you do need a hook. Hook as others have stated simply means to grab the reader. There are many tools and devices available to you as a writer.

From a reader's perspective as I generally don't have a lot of time to shop and even less money (also from one who LOVES to read) this is how the selection process goes.

I walk down the isle reading the titles and studying the covers. If anyone of them jump out at me, I pick them up and turn them over and read the back. If it sounds like a storyline I would be interested in. If it is, I turn the book back over and flip open to the first page.

A book gets one maybe two pages to hook me due to restraints and there are a lot of books to get through. If I start reading a book and find myself walking down the isle with my head still stuck in it, devouring the pages that is the book I buy. If it's only so-so but seems promising I'll put it on my consider list. If it has no grab whatsoever it goes right back to the shelf never to be picked up again.

And I'm a writer.

Like or not that is how the selection process works for most people. Write or don't write to fit it, it's your choice.

Mug em or seduce em?

Lindo

CrankItTo11

UrsusMinor

engmajor2005

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

veinglory

volitare nequeo

triceretops

LunarMoon

blackbird

TrickyFiction

Who?

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

Simon Woodhouse

kristie911

Happy to be here

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

SpookyWriter

Euan H.

Unspeakable

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

zornhau

Swordsman

BruceJ

Me and my Muse

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

sfecphory

CaroGirl

Living the dream

BruceJ

Me and my Muse

Jamesaritchie

icerose

Lost in School Work