A hard one

ErylRavenwell · Nov 30, 2006

Need the opinion of you grammar wiz on this.

The painting was one of his best yet...no, the best, he reconsidered.

(The tone is important here.)

or

The painting was one of his best yet—no, the best, he reconsidered.

I could have done a passive-active thought hybrid, but I want "he reconsidered" in.

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Nov 30, 2006

I'm probably horribly wrong - and I'll set that off with an 'I don't care, either' - 'cause I like to use the elipse for 'hesitancy' and the Em dash for 'interruption'. That's just me, though, and I'm a crumudgeon.

Silver King · Nov 30, 2006

Ol' Girl beat me to the punch, but our views are different on this one:

Drop "yet" and go with the em dash. Also, change "reconsidered" to "now considered."

The painting was one of his best—no, the best, he now considered.

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Nov 30, 2006

But what if the intent of the 'yet' is to emphasize that the character thinks there may be better in the future? That s/he wasn't done yet? Take out the 'yet' and and the meaning of the sentence changes altogether for me. And I was only looking at the punctuation since that was the only difference between the two sentences.

Silver King · Nov 30, 2006

I thought "yet" was implied, since it's his "best" work up to that time.

aghast · Nov 30, 2006

the painting was one of his best -- no, the best -- he now considered

Scarlett_156 · Nov 30, 2006

I would put: "The painting, he decided, was among his best yet-- no, it was his best."

Somethin like that. (I hope this helped!)

Lissa · Nov 30, 2006

I don't think I'm a grammar whiz, but I'm with Ol' Girl on this one. As a reader, the elipse gives me the impression of a thoughtful pause while the em dash imparts excitment or urgency. You mention that the tone is important. What exactly is the tone?

Silver King · Nov 30, 2006

aghast said:
the painting was one of his best -- no, the best -- he now considered

Brilliant!

Okay, onto the next question.

ErylRavenwell · Nov 30, 2006

Silver King said:
Ol' Girl beat me to the punch, but our views are different on this one:

Drop "yet" and go with the em dash. Also, change "reconsidered" to "now considered."

The painting was one of his best—no, the best, he now considered.

"Considered" I think is too weak a word. "Reconsidered" is more powerful as it pertains to an alteration in mind.

I didn't actually use the "no, the best, he reconsidered"; I cowardly used a colon to introduce the painting after the "yet".

It's just a possibility I'm curious about. There's more to it than meets the eye. The omniscient pov and the char's are in conflict.

I have my reason for the "yet". I use trivialities like "yet", "somehow", "however" etc as markers: 1) for continuity 2) to separate the narrator POV and characters' POVs. There are used sparringly, but also strategically. It's all a matter of taste. Bloody Tolkien and his influence

.

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Nov 30, 2006

Heh. We all have our peccadilloes. I'm a lilly-livered user of 'that' and a slave to those pesky elipses. It's my only failing.

Yeah. Right.

pdr · Dec 1, 2006

You'd like to use...

reconsidered.

How about?

The painting was one of his best yet. No, he reconsidered, the best.

Sandi LeFaucheur · Dec 1, 2006

I'd switch it around a bit:

The painting was one of his best yet. He reconsidered. No--the best.

ErylRavenwell · Dec 3, 2006

Nod to Pdr and Sandi. This would be how many bestselling writers would do it. They don't actually bother with ellipsis, semi-colon etc. Which is reasonable, considering most readers are not acquainted with these punctuation marks.

pdr · Dec 3, 2006

Huh?

I'm a little confused here, EyrlR.

You said:
Need the opinion of you grammar wiz on this.

So some people responded. Then you posted this:

'...This would be how many bestselling writers would do it. They don't actually bother with ellipsis, semi-colon etc. Which is reasonable, considering most readers are not acquainted with these punctuation marks.'

Were we wasting our time helping you out by offering various solutions? In fact was this not 'helping out', as you seemed to ask but 'taking a test'? And for what purpose?
Asking for help is fine, but I don't like wasting my scant free time 'helping' someone only to find that it isn't help that's wanted but lab rats!

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Dec 3, 2006

Where is it written that most readers aren't familiar with ellipsis, semi-colons, etc., and that bestselling writers don't actually bother with them?

ErylRavenwell · Dec 3, 2006

pdr said:
I'm a little confused here, EyrlR.

You said:
Need the opinion of you grammar wiz on this.

So some people responded. Then you posted this:

'...This would be how many bestselling writers would do it. They don't actually bother with ellipsis, semi-colon etc. Which is reasonable, considering most readers are not acquainted with these punctuation marks.'

Were we wasting our time helping you out by offering various solutions? In fact was this not 'helping out', as you seemed to ask but 'taking a test'? And for what purpose?
Asking for help is fine, but I don't like wasting my scant free time 'helping' someone only to find that it isn't help that's wanted but lab rats!

You're a little moody today, aren't you? They are not lab rats. I'm interested in their opinions, which are most helpful. We learn by experience and listening to others. The lab rats remark is kind of a low blow really. I'm just here to learn and argue. It's a forum after all.

ErylRavenwell · Dec 3, 2006

Ol' Fashioned Girl said:
Where is it written that most readers aren't familiar with ellipsis, semi-colons, etc., and that bestselling writers don't actually bother with them?

Nowhere, really. Just an impression.

I wrote "many don't bother" not bestselling writers in general. I can name you one for instance.

pdr · Dec 3, 2006

Actually...

I think you and the now banned pash are one and the same person!
Same sophistry and same pontificating.

What's the difference between 'many don't bother' and 'bestselling writers in general'? Not much really is there?

No more. I don't have time to play silly games. If you really truly are here to learn, then please say thank you to those who offered you choices, and leave it at that.

ErylRavenwell · Dec 3, 2006

pdr said:
I think you and the now banned pash are one and the same person!
Same sophistry and same pontificating.

What's the difference between 'many don't bother' and 'bestselling writers in general'? Not much really is there?

No more. I don't have time to play silly games. If you really truly are here to learn, then please say thank you to those who offered you choices, and leave it at that.

Thank you for your opinion and have a good day, my good Sir.

Birol · Dec 3, 2006

Okay, everyone, step away from your keyboards, deep breaths, and count to ten.

When you've calmed down, maybe someone can tell me what it is about grammar discussions that makes writers so easily irritated?

Duncan J Macdonald · Dec 4, 2006

Birol said:
Okay, everyone, step away from your keyboards, deep breaths, and count to ten.

When you've calmed down, maybe someone can tell me what it is about grammar discussions that makes writers so easily irritated?

It's the voices in me head. I can handle it when they are in harmony, but when they begin to bicker and argue over who killed who -- well then, I stalks the grammar board, yesssssssss preciousssssssss...

Sandi LeFaucheur · Dec 4, 2006

Actually, the reason why I put "He reconsidered" as a separate sentence was because I didn't think he worked as a tag, which is what it looks like in the original version, not because I'm unfamiliar with semi-colons and ellipses. But hey, if that means I write like a best-selling writer, I can live with that!

pdr · Dec 4, 2006

Oh, thank heavens!

I thought it was just me, Duncan!
Those voices in me head drive me crazy too! It's all those who/that, different than, impacted and other Americanisms.
I keep dreaming of borrowing a time machine and hunting down old Webster to kill him before he does his damage!

Birol · Dec 4, 2006

You guys really need to learn to control the voices. They can get you into trouble if you let them run too rampant. I don't mean just the "people are looking at me funny" kind of trouble, either.

A hard one

ErylRavenwell

Ol' Fashioned Girl

Hand? What hand?

Silver King

Megalops Erectus

Ol' Fashioned Girl

Hand? What hand?

Silver King

Megalops Erectus

aghast

Scarlett_156

asdf

Lissa

Silver King

Megalops Erectus

ErylRavenwell

Ol' Fashioned Girl

Hand? What hand?

pdr

Sandi LeFaucheur

ErylRavenwell

pdr

Ol' Fashioned Girl

Hand? What hand?

ErylRavenwell

ErylRavenwell

pdr

ErylRavenwell

Birol

Around and About

Duncan J Macdonald

Plotting! Not Plodding!

Sandi LeFaucheur

pdr

Birol

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