Writing Workshops

tammay · Nov 28, 2006

Hi all,
I'm enrolled in a PhD program in Creative Writing and I've done several grad-level writing workshops. But I'm beginning to wonder how really helpful they are. My experience has been that I've felt rushed with submitting stories/chapters of a novel and I've been skeptical of the comments I've recieved.

One of the problems is that I don't believe that a first draft should be workshopped until it's gone through a few of my own revisions. I feel like the first draft (what Anne Lamott calls "shitty first draft") is pretty fragile, especially a novel draft, where I'm still trying to discover the characters and their complexities and what the story is about. I feel like I need at least one revision done on my own before I show it to others.

Also, I'm currently about to finish a novel writing workshop and it hasn't been a positive experience at all. The seminar (though graduate level) only had 3 out of 9 graduate students enrolled. The rest were graduates and undergraduates from completely different departments who were there because "they've always wanted to write a novel". Subsequently, their taste was very different from the three grad students. I'm not putting them down, but it's hard to balance comments from someone who writes in a very different style and a very different genre than you do.

I've been disappointed a lot with the commentarly. Though not all I would say was useless, I tend to write, especially in the first draft, quite "flowery" because I know that subsequent drafts I curtail that a lot and scrutinize my figurative language considerably. But not for the first draft. I explained this again and again to the class but I still kept getting slammed for my too "flowery" writing.

I want to leave where I am (for other reasons in addition to the workshops) and I'm considering grad school in a related but different area than what I've done in my BA and MA (English, of course

). I initially wanted to stuy Creative Writing mainly to get a chance to get some guidance with my writing not only from faculty but also from other students, other writers. But I'm feeling more and more that I'm wasting my time and maybe it's better to leave CW behind and when I'm ready to show my work to others, find a community of writers that would understand my way of writing and that would give me a chance to revise my work to the point where I'm comfortable submitting it to the scrutiny of others.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone else has had the experience of taking writing workshops (especially at an academic level) and been disappointed by them.

Tam

IrishScribbler · Nov 28, 2006

This may not be exactly what you're looking for, but I recently took a short fiction writing class at an undergraduate college as I was pursuing my B.S. in English, and I was disappointed. It was much like the class you described. I was one of three serious writers. The rest were there to fill their fine arts breadth component, or because they thought it would be fun/easy.

It was so bad, in fact, one of the students ripped off Roald Dahl's Matilda. It was obvious to anyone who's read the book or seen the movie, and after I broached the subject with my professor, her story changed.

The point is, I've been disappointed with writing classes. It wasn't that I didn't like what was being taught, but I didn't really get feedback from my peers, and most of them were first-time writers who were using it as a blow-off class.

Longest writing class of my life.

In the silver lining, though, one of my personal favorite short pieces came from that class, my writing developed nicely, and it bulked up my portfolio a bit.

Wasn't all bad.

Gillhoughly · Nov 28, 2006

My one and only creative writing course was a class I took in 12th grade. It was fun, I wrote my first short story, and I got to sit within a few feet of a person I had a mad crush on--all positive, but not too practical.

My university major was drama and film-making. (Thus would I be destined to have a brilliant alternate career in the food services industry while waiting to hear back from Spielberg about my application to be an apprentice director with him. I'm still waiting.)

While neither would ever trib to a living income I learned a heck of a lot about plot, character, mood, staging, how to build a scene, physically and emotionally--all that good writing stuff--and gained an edge on all the other creative writing types by developing a heck of an ear for dialogue. (Yup, reading plays and scripts helps a LOT in that department.)

I will venture an opinion that your CW courses will get you into the healthy habit of writing every day. Whatever you do there ain't gonna hurt, but I would recommend taking some kind of theatrical class as well. You don't need any talent for acting (heaven knows I was bloody awful) but you will absorb a lot of keen stuff you might never get anywhere else.

Besides the people are interesting. I recall one who went on to H'wood and made good. He was a skinny but cute underclassman named Randy Quaid. Durned proud of that boy!

Mr. Funktastic · Nov 28, 2006

I'm working toward my BA in English, and I enrolled in a Creative Writing class last semester with an experience similar to yours. Most people weren't incredibly serious about the class; as a matter of fact, most of my fellow students were taking it as an easy blow-off class. Their work reflected this, too.

There were students who were interested in the class, and there were many interesting people. One main problem is that the class was divided into two sections for editing and such, and I was placed with none of these people. I went the entire semester baffling people with work I wanted help with, but I was given none because they literally called some of it "perfect." I think it was their lazy way out of editing, though I fed my ego just a bit with it.

Overall, I didn't learn much. It was one of the worst experiences I've had in a class. I got an A, though. Ha.

TrickyFiction · Nov 28, 2006

Mr. Funktastic said:
Most people weren't incredibly serious about the class; as a matter of fact, most of my fellow students were taking it as an easy blow-off class. Their work reflected this, too.

There were students who were interested in the class, and there were many interesting people. One main problem is that the class was divided into two sections for editing and such, and I was placed with none of these people. I went the entire semester baffling people with work I wanted help with, but I was given none because they literally called some of it "perfect." I think it was their lazy way out of editing, though I fed my ego just a bit with it.

Wow. It sounds like you were in my writing class.

tammay · Nov 29, 2006

Great replies. I'm so glad I'm not the only one who's been experiencing this.

The irony is that I've long ago got into the habit of writing every day (or nearly every day) and so I'm doing that in spite of the class I'm taking.

And I agree that though it's disappointing, it isn't all bad. I was having trouble revising my novel and that class got me to restart it and now it's going at a much better pace.

However, I'm still contemplating whether I want to have 2 or 3 years of workshops in that manner...

Tam

LeeFlower · Nov 29, 2006

I've been in five wrokshops over the course of my academic carreer.

The workshops at my current school are 400-level classes that demand a high level of critique, so no one writes 'it's perfect' and moves on. In most of them, you have to submit a writing sample to the prof as an 'audition' before you're admitted to the course at all. The critiques I get back are generally immensely helpful.

At my old school, workshops were frought with interpersonal problems that often made them exasperating. I wasn't really involved in the drama, so I got decent critiques, but we had one person who was just ripping into other people's work out of petty one-upmanship. It didn't really help that she'd already taken like six classes with the prof, and was one of his favorite students. Anytime anyone said something critical about her work (and there was a whole lot to say, believe me), the prof would jump in and tell them they were wrong.

I guess it really depends on the group and who's leading it.

IrishScribbler · Nov 29, 2006

Mr. Funktastic said:
I'm working toward my BA in English, and I enrolled in a Creative Writing class last semester with an experience similar to yours. Most people weren't incredibly serious about the class; as a matter of fact, most of my fellow students were taking it as an easy blow-off class. Their work reflected this, too.

There were students who were interested in the class, and there were many interesting people. One main problem is that the class was divided into two sections for editing and such, and I was placed with none of these people. I went the entire semester baffling people with work I wanted help with, but I was given none because they literally called some of it "perfect." I think it was their lazy way out of editing, though I fed my ego just a bit with it.

That's what I've gone through, too!

MikeAngel · Nov 29, 2006

I suggest you look into an MFA program where you live/sleep/eat with other writers for 2 years. The PhD in Creative Writing isn't really considered the "terminal degree" that an MFA is, unless, perhaps you're in Australia. The top US MFA programs are intense with very good instructor/writers. A regular university or community college most often doesn't cut it in their creative writing classes. I took a so-called "advanced creative writing" class as an elective for my masters in ed. program that was laughable. There was little or no instruction in how to critique, much less write. The pieces submitted for the most part were amateurish and laughable. Good luck.

tammay · Dec 2, 2006

MikeAngel said:
I suggest you look into an MFA program where you live/sleep/eat with other writers for 2 years. The PhD in Creative Writing isn't really considered the "terminal degree" that an MFA is, unless, perhaps you're in Australia. The top US MFA programs are intense with very good instructor/writers. A regular university or community college most often doesn't cut it in their creative writing classes. I took a so-called "advanced creative writing" class as an elective for my masters in ed. program that was laughable. There was little or no instruction in how to critique, much less write. The pieces submitted for the most part were amateurish and laughable. Good luck.

Mike, you bring up a good point about regular universities/colleges and creative writing. I did consider an MFA program, but it's getting considerably problematic trying to find an academic teaching job with just an MFA, even from one of the top schools. I've been told by faculty and other grad students and I've done some research - in the academic world, a PhD in CW is looked upon more favorably than an MFA and so I'm inclined to stick with that, since I already have my MA in English and I'm looking for an academic career (in addition to wanting to publish).

Tam

Writing Workshops

tammay

Got the hang of it, here

IrishScribbler

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

Mr. Funktastic

The name says it all.

TrickyFiction

Who?

tammay

Got the hang of it, here

LeeFlower

Lurker Extraordinaire

IrishScribbler

MikeAngel

tammay

Got the hang of it, here