Question about creating races/species and names...

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Ivonia

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Are concepts behind a species copyrightable? I'm curious because I was randomly browsing through Wikipedia, when I typed up Avian to see what would be brought up.

Sure enough, something did come up, and according to Wikipedia, they seem to be a generic term for a race of winged-creatures in many fantasy stories/novels/games.

Anyway, I was asking because I have a species in my story specifically called Avians, and they are winged-birds, and although they have an anthropomorphic body structure, they're still essentially birds, and not simply humans with wings on their back. For instance, they have seperate limbs for their wings and their arms (I suppose in this sense they would look sort of like what you'd imagine an angel would look like, but again, the head is that of birds, not people).

I came up with this stuff years ago when I was randomly doodling in class. Since I drew a lot of bird-men and liked what I saw, I began to develop them even more (obviously their species has the fastest ships in my story, for example), to the point where they have a pretty complex history. And prior to looking it up on Wikipedia, I had no idea these other things existed.

I'm wondering if I could get sued later on for this (particularly if it becomes popular. I'm asking now so that if this does happen, well, it's not like I was blatantly ripping people off). Again, I didn't know about the other Avian stuff till I looked it up on wikipedia (great place to find info on stuff you can't normally find elsewhere), and I am developing a lot of unique things so that my version of it will be radically different from other people's things (such as having them fly spaceships and small fighters, etc. Yes, they can fly with their wings, but in my story, they have ships in which to fight the bad guys with).

If this could be a potential lawsuit, I can always change the name of the species of birds in my story (I've already done that a few times since names I came up with for characters and concepts were already taken by others, and again, I don't want to seem like I'm just ripping off people, which is all too common nowadays). But if that stuff is generic enough that it probably wouldn't bother anyone, then I may stick with it (I suppose I should start looking though, to make my story even more unique, cause Avian is kind of generic).

Keep in mind I'm not calling these things Hobbits nor is my book called Star Wars (which I understand would definitely be ripping it off). I'm thinking this would probably be along the lines of stuff like elves, dwarves, etc, because Tolkien didn't invent those races (but no doubt he made them popular), so I suppose my naming of this particular species wouldn't be infringing on anything because it is kind of generic (but again, let me know if it sounds like something that could be a lawsuit later on).
 

MattW

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Using the word "Avians" is fair game. It's a word in English, even if it has been used by other writers in the past. If your avians look different, act different, have a different plot and names, there is no issue.

The concept of a winged race cannot be copyrighted.

I am not a lawyer.
 

Pthom

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I agree with MattW.

I am not a bird.
 

ChaosTitan

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Ivonia said:
Keep in mind I'm not calling these things Hobbits nor is my book called Star Wars (which I understand would definitely be ripping it off).

Hobbits, no. Halfings? Go for it. ;)

As for calling the book Star Wars? Ripping off, yes. But certainly not illegal, since you can't copyright a title.
 

daoine

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The name "Star Wars" just might be trademarked though. Many movie studios trademarked titles and characters in order to make big bucks off spin off collectibles and merchandise - I know "Harry Potter" is definitely trademarked by Warner Bros.
 

Sean D. Schaffer

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daoine said:
The name "Star Wars" just might be trademarked though. Many movie studios trademarked titles and characters in order to make big bucks off spin off collectibles and merchandise - I know "Harry Potter" is definitely trademarked by Warner Bros.


Star Wars is a registered trademark, yes. I don't know whether it belongs to Twentieth Century Fox or to Lucasfilm, Ltd, but it is a registered trademark.

I am most certainly not a lawyer, but I don't think you can just trademark a single word like 'avian' without it being combined with other words in a title, much like the Star Wars issue. If I remember correctly, you don't have to register a trademark with the government (something about the letters 'TM' being lawful just by being applied to a title) although to get the (R) requires a registration.
 

Ivonia

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Well, this certainly helps :)

Yeah, I'm kind of paranoid about making sure my creations don't resemble stuff that's already out there, so that people have less of a case of accusing me of plagarism later on (which I totally understand am against myself, because I sure would hate for people taking credit for stuff I made. Again, I've already had to change some stuff because those ideas were already out there, but that's okay, because I came up with some cooler alternatives to what I originally had planned).

On top of that, it seems to imply that I'm just a hack, and can't come up with anything interesting on my own, so that I have to steal it from other people (didn't the Wachowski brothers, who made the Matrix movies, get in trouble because a lot of the concepts in their first movie seemed an awful lot like a treatment that a woman sent them? And it would probably explain why the 2nd and 3rd movies sucked lol).

Yeah, I know you guys aren't lawyers, but just the fact that "Avian" in this sense isn't totally unique to just one story gives me one less thing to worry about. I'll probably still keep "Avian" for the name of my species, but I'll add something else to it as their "full name", and just that "Avian" is shorthand for them (sort of like "human" is for "Homo Sapiens").
 

Sean D. Schaffer

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Ivonia said:
Snipped....

On top of that, it seems to imply that I'm just a hack, and can't come up with anything interesting on my own, so that I have to steal it from other people (didn't the Wachowski brothers, who made the Matrix movies, get in trouble because a lot of the concepts in their first movie seemed an awful lot like a treatment that a woman sent them? And it would probably explain why the 2nd and 3rd movies sucked lol).

....Snipped.


Bolding Mine.

I don't think using older terminology makes you a hack. Doesn't Uncle Jim sometimes say that everything has already been done or mentioned? If this is true, then placing your own spin on something that has been done countless times before, is not hacking. It's just being human.

Even the Bible gives the statement (I think it's the Book of Ecclesiastes) that "There is nothing new under the sun". Ecclesiastes was written, what, 3,000 years ago? Yet the wise King Solomon doesn't condemn someone who does something that's been done before.

My point is, don't put yourself down. Doing something that's been done before is not hacking; it's being real. It's not what an author writes that makes him a hack; rather, it is IMO how the writer writes, that makes him a hack or not.
 

TSByrne

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Ivonia said:
(didn't the Wachowski brothers, who made the Matrix movies, get in trouble because a lot of the concepts in their first movie seemed an awful lot like a treatment that a woman sent them? And it would probably explain why the 2nd and 3rd movies sucked lol).

I don't know about that, but the plot is stolen pretty much scene for scene from Grant Morrison's The Invisibles. They just replaced magic with technology, made King Mob black and Jack Frost an adult, and took out the sense of humor.

Just ... y'know. For the record.


And anyway, on topic, you don't have anything to worry about. Bird people are common enough in fiction that you won't get in trouble for using them, but not common enough that you can't give the concept your own spin.

And, if I may contribute my two cents, "Avian" sounds like what people not of their race might call them as a sort of (perhaps politically incorrect) racial shorthand. I imagine they'd have a word for themselves not related to human linguistics.
 
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Mac H.

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Sheesh.

1. No, the Wachowski brothers did NOT get into trouble because of the concepts in their first movie seemed like a treatment that a woman sent them.

The woman tried to sue. She failed miserably. It was no problem. (Except for her)

2. How is the plot the 'scene for scene' from Grant Morrison's The Invisibles !!?

I've read people's arguments and I just don't see it. You've got a messianic figure, freedom fighters etc ... just like Dune and THOUSANDS of other stories. Go on. List the scenes in 'The Invisibles'. List the scenes in 'The Matrix'. There are about 4 or 5 similar ones ... which any Joseph Campbell fan will instantly recognise as being from a much earlier period still...

Personally I think it was ripped off a story I wrote when I was a teenager. The whole 'life is just virtual reality' with the human race being stuck in liquid filled pods. Blatently ripped out of my story.

Except mine had no cool martial arts. Or much plot - the hero just wandered around and thought about stuff. And the hero quoted Shakespeare all the time, I think. I suspect I used the line about 'all the worlds a stage, and the men and women merely players' WAY too much... It was a terrible story.

Why does everyone want to claim that the 'Matrix' was a 'rip-off' of an earlier story? Was 'Terminator' a rip-off of 'Time & Again'? Was 'The Truman Show' a rip-off of 'The Tunnel under the World'?

Mac
(PS: To get back on topic, 'Avian' is a natural human name for any bird-like species. Arthur C Clarke even used it in the 'Rama' series.)
(PPS: I loved the idea in 'The Invisibles' that the Western alphabet is designed to limit our thoughts, because no thought can exist without a language. Thus, by learning the hidden letters of the alphabet, we can learn the secrets of the universe. Utter bilge, but kinda cool ..._
 
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ChaosTitan

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TSByrne said:
And, if I may contribute my two cents, "Avian" sounds like what people not of their race might call them as a sort of (perhaps politically incorrect) racial shorthand. I imagine they'd have a word for themselves not related to human linguistics.

This reminded me of the third season of "Enterprise," and the different Xindi species. They were called the Aquatics, the Reptilians, the Aboreals, and....uh, whatever the other two were....
 

Euan H.

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'Avian' comes from the Latin 'Avis', meaning bird (not a chariot hire company). You could poke around for another Latin word with a related meaning if you wanted something that would have the same resonance but be more original.

Frex:

volaticus : winged, flying / inconstant, unreliable / flighty.
volatilis: winged, flying / swift, rapid / fleeting, transitory.
volo : to fly, speed, move rapidly.
aer, aeris : air, atmosphere, ether, weather.

Or you could look at Greek:

bird= πουλί, πτηνόpouli, ptino
fly= πετώ, μύγαpeto, mygaair= αέρας, ύφοςaeras, yfoswind= άνεμος, ανεμίζω, περιτυλίσσω, τυλίγω, κουρδίζωanemos, anemizo, peritylisso, tyligo, kourdizo

(Those are all modern Greek--I don't know an online ancient Greek dictionary. And I don't speak or read any Greek either. So these may be wrong.)

Also, you've got the deity Aeolus--God of the Winds--which would give you 'Aeolians'.

If you don't want to use 'Avians' (and I wouldn't want to), then there's lots of alternatives if you want them.
 

daoine

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There's also a Star Trek TNG book called "The Death of Princes" by John Peel (#44) (I have it in front of me, don't laugh). It's about a race of space faring feathered and winged people. I can't remember if they can fly or not. They're called the "Burani".

As for The Matrix, I wrote an article theorising that it was partly inspired by Plato's "The Cave".
 

Scarlett_156

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When writing science fiction/fantasy/magical stuff I used to really sweat over whether what I was creating was "original" or not-- then I stopped worrying about it. My writing improved drastically almost the very day I decided that I would let other, more legally adept folks worry about the legal issues, and that I would just stick to writing the stories as they appeared in my mind.

It's possible to rip off someone whose work you've never even glimpsed, much less viewed or read. Why is that? My explanation is the collective consciousness, synchronicity, all that happy horseshit-- just write the story and don't TRY deliberately to rip off anyone.

I hope this was helpful!
 

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You guys are great. Thouroughly enjoyed the discussion. A glaring example of "ripping off" are the books and films that use old westerns as their model. Remember High Noon with G.Cooper that was moved off planet in Outlander? Also once saw a spoof of a western made from the bard's Romeo and Juliet. The dialog in the balcony scene: "Hey, Rome. Where you all at?"
 

badducky

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ripping-off discussion aside:

unless you have an important reason (like getting sued), sticking to conventional names is a very good idea at preventing reader confusion, and minimizing reader annoyance.
 

dclary

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favorite race name ever:

In tremors 3, the wormy things have evolved into flying beasts that jet-propel themselves with firey gas from their rear-ends. Someone calls them "A$$-blasters!"
 

J. Weiland

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dclary said:
favorite race name ever:

In tremors 3, the wormy things have evolved into flying beasts that jet-propel themselves with firey gas from their rear-ends. Someone calls them "A$$-blasters!"

Reminds me of the shit-weasels in Stephen King's Dreamcatcher. :D But I do believe that I once upon a time saw Tremors 3; at least I remember seeing 1, 2 and 4.
 

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Mac H. said:
(PPS: I loved the idea in 'The Invisibles' that the Western alphabet is designed to limit our thoughts, because no thought can exist without a language. Thus, by learning the hidden letters of the alphabet, we can learn the secrets of the universe. Utter bilge, but kinda cool ..._

I believe this was ripped off from On Beyond Zebra by Dr. Seuss. :p
 
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