I have a question concerning representations

[JustinoXV]

A literary manager wants to rep me. He mentioned one of his contacts (big). He's kind of new though. I did give him permission to send my stuff out to one place.

An agent at a decently big agency, after reading my synopsis, asked me to send him that very same screenplay. I did so a couple of weeks ago.

So yesterday, I emailed the agent telling him that someone wants to rep me on that script, and I would like to know what he thought of it, before I made actual decisions on representations.

How long should I give him to decide? If the agency will have me, I'd prefer them.

[joecalabre]

Double dipping. Ah, the joy's of juggling multiple submissions.

I would give either party 30 days (not counting mailing time) from submission to make a decision. It usualy takes that long for them to find available time for a weekend read.

The manager, since he's new, I would start bugging after two weeks.

[JustinoXV]

Thanks a lot, Joe. That basically means I should be calling both of them the week after Thanksgiving (the agent will have had it for 1 month by then, and the people who the new manager sent it to would have for two weeks). But everyone will probably be on holiday, so I should call them the following week.

[SimonSays]

Justino - do you want to have both a manager and an agent?

If not, which would you rather have? A manager or an agent or do you have no preference?

[joecalabre]

You can have both-- for 30% (15% each).

[JustinoXV]

I'd rather have an agent. I'm dealing with this manager because he said he had a contact with a specific studio, and I don't see any harm in letting him submit (perhaps it will lead to a deal)

I do have another script at a prodco that has been evaluated by one reader, and going up to the next stage. I'll hear from the development exec when he reads it.

If I got an offer there, I'd be able to go an agency to get them to negotiate it.

[Writing Again]

I understand why a writer would want an agent. The need to have someone else to negotiate for you, even if you could do it yourself, is clear. The time, effort, and knowlege required would be better spent writing.

I'm not sure I understand why a writer would want a manager.

[joecalabre]

Speaking from one who has a manager, I can answer this based on my experience. Good and Bad points.

GOOD. My manager interest is in selling me and getting me any assigments, where as an agent usualy is only interested in repping a particular project from a new writer. An established writer's agent will of course, but that's because they developed a relationship over a long period of time.

GOOD. My manager has less clients than an agent and will work harder to sell my work, especially since he can attach himself as producer on a project.

BAD. He wants to attach as producer, which may turn off interested parties. But if he does get prod credit, than I get my 10% back. He says he will work on my deal before trying to get on as producer but many may not.

GOOD. My manager gives me advice on works in progress and on career goals. An agent is usualy only cares about completed scripts and offers little guidance.

GOOD. A manger tends to have a wider range of contacts, whereas an agency tends to deal with the same people over and over.

GOOD. My manager is trying hard to get me an agency for co-repping. Easier than me trying on my own.

BAD. A manager can't negotiate deals, but many get around that. They go for co-repping with an agency but that adds up the percentage you have to give (10-15 for a manager 15-20% for an agent.)

There may be more that others will chime in on.

Of course there's good and bad in every rep, whether it's an agent or manager. The important thing is you feel comfortable with who you deal with.

[joecalabre]

Justino,
I would probably wait until the begining of the 1st week in December.

Most of these guys take very long weekends for Thanksgiving and other holidays, would need the entire following week to get caught up and dealing with a new writer/script is not gonna be high on thier list.

[JustinoXV]

Joe,

Thanksgiving is on the 25th. Six days from that date is Dec. 1st. Which is what I said I would do, call them the following week.

I'm well aware that in the film industry, (actually, other industries as well), people often take decent sized breaks before or maybe after thanksgiving. Not too much is going to get done that week, and definitely not for the first few days of the following week.

[joecalabre]

I was thinking you meant the 29th, the following Monday.
Just thought I'd mention it, in case you forgot or didn't realize.

[JustinoXV]

I'm not telling people whether they should or shouldn't get a manager by making the following comments.

In California, agents are licensed by the state of California (it's the same in New York too).

Anyone could legally call himself a manager.

Also, agents can not be producers.

Managers can produce scripts or attach themselves as producers. Technically, a producer takes a script to a studio to get a deal. Instead of the manager/producer buying the scripts they interested in, they submit them to producers or studios. Think of a manager as being someone in between a producer and an agent. Managers don't always attach themselves to scripts. It all depends.

[A Pathetic Writer]

Joe and Justin talking agent strategy is much like ashley and mary-kate discussing buffets.

[joecalabre]

I prefer to think that Justin and I are two people looking at different sides of the same coin.

Regardeless of which side you prefer, a Nickel is still worth 5 cents.

(which is about what our opinions are worth.);)

[A Pathetic Writer]

I prefer the side that spells regardless correctly.

Also, you don't capitalize coin denominations.

And when you write a full sentence in a parenthetical, capitalize the first word.

Keep up the writing effort! It's going to pay off some day, I just know it! :party

[joecalabre]

I type fasta' dan mah' brain sometimes.

If ah' knowed ah' wuz goin' t'get graded fo' mah' wo'k posted on some message bo'd, ah' would gots mah' edito' on some long term retaina' and real, real busy ah' might add.

Some good websites for translating any text into a variety of dialects, including moron, jive, redneck and others.

www.degraeve.com/translator.php (http://www.degraeve.com/translator.php)
rinkworks.com/dialect/ (http://rinkworks.com/dialect/)

[joecalabre]

Joe and Justin talking agent strategy is much like ashley and mary-kate discussing buffets.

Aren't proper names supposed to be capitalized? Did I miss a memo?

[JustinoXV]

I'm sure Mary Kate and Ashley have been to enough events that have buffets to discuss them.

Your point being?

[SimonSays]

Joe:

"A manger tends to have a wider range of contacts, whereas an agency tends to deal with the same people over and over."

What do you base this statement on? The agents I know have mutliple contacts at every studio and hundreds of production cos. My agent targets each individual script of mine towards those producers he feels will be most interested in the project. He does submit every spec of mine to certain producers regardless of genre - but that's because those producers love my writing and have requested to see everything I write.

In addition - every manager I know started their career in the business as...... agents! So they are essentially using the contacts they made as agents.

Joe:

"My manager gives me advice on works in progress and on career goals. An agent is usualy only cares about completed scripts and offers little guidance".

That depends on the agent. There are agents who do what your manager does.

Joe:

"BAD. A manager can't negotiate deals, but many get around that. They go for co-repping with an agency but that adds up the percentage you have to give (10-15 for a manager 15-20% for an agent.)"

This is more than just bad - this is huge. More than anything else writers need someone to negotiate their deals. If you have a manager and only a manager I strongly recommend you hire a good entertainment lawyer to negotiate the deal. If the deal is large enough this is often a cheaper way to go than manager and an agent.

No matter how good your manager is, you will still need an agent or attorney

If you have a good agent - you will not need a manager.

[joecalabre]

Simon,
What I meant is that a manger's contacts include, among others, indie director's and producers, small production companies (as well as large) and agencies. That would mean they tend to (not guaranteed) have a larger base of clients to show your work. Of course, some managers may not and some agencies may, but traditionally, managers have a greater access to a wider mix of people. This is what I have seen with my own experiences as well as what I read in various books, including "Breakfast with Sharks" (a good book on the business end of screenwriting.)

As for advice, yes many agents do, but it depends on the individual agents. I found, (again with experience and reading) that a lot of agents tend not to with new writers.

And lastly, in regards to negotiating a deal. Yup that's a bad one. That is why most managers with try to get an agent for you. I pointed out that they can get you an agent (in some cases) easier than you can alone. In either case, ALWAYS get a lawyer or agent to negotiate for you and look over all contracts presented.

As I said earlier, each writer needs to be comfortable with who ever represents them. Sure an agent would be best in many cases, but most new writers have difficulty getting one. A manager may be easier to obtain and eventually lead to bigger things.

I am not advocating one over the other.

I wish I had an agent, but alas, not in the cards yet. I can say that a manager, so far, has been good for me. He has gotten me a dozen meetings, two paid jobs and an option in the past year.

Managers, agents and lawyers all have their place in the world and what ever the writer decides, must give off a warm fuzzy feeling.

[JustinoXV]

"What I meant is that a manger's contacts include, among others, indie director's and producers, small production companies (as well as large) and agencies. That would mean they tend to (not guaranteed) have a larger base of clients to show your work."

How good this is or isn't depends on where you are in your career. If you've gotten a decent sized sale, then you certainly don't a rep with contacts with unattached small prodos. To tell the truth, if the prodco is small, or if you're dealing with indie people you can submit to them yourself. There are some larger companies that accept submissions from writers directly. And if you've done anything like internships or have otherwise made personal contacts, that helps as well.

If you've submitted to someone who then gives you a decent sized offer, you can call any good sized agent and get representation that way.

Of course, I'm not telling anyone not to get a manager if you think that's the best option for you. In my personal case, that particular manager is submitting one script to one particular place. If I do not get a solid offer, he and I are finished (in part because I think he is too inexperienced, and in part because I personally prefer an agent).

[BROUGHCUT]

It's good managers can't negotiate deals. Otherwise, you would have a situation whereby the manager would be negotiating your deal as writer alongside their own deal as producer -- on the same project. Huge conflict of interest, who's most likely to end up playing second fiddle in that scenario?

[BROUGHCUT]

If you only had a manager you would have no choice but to retain an attorney or find an agent, becuase business affairs execs would not negotiate with a manager, full stop.

[HarmonyWriter]

I recently moved to LA in hopes of finding a literary agent who would be interested in my spec scripts. I can't find anyone who will read them. I have sent query letters; I have asked for introductions; I've sent scripts cold. Those who have talked to me have said they aren't accepting new clients... but it seems to me that EVERYBODY out here as an agent but me. The jewelry clerk at Walmart, the pool guy, the local personal trainer -- they all have agents AND managers. I truly believe that EVERYONE has a good story to tell but does everyone also have a good script?? I was thinking of attending one of those classes where literary agents come to speak... can anyone recommend one? And should I join a writer's group? I don't know many other writers and maybe it would be insightful to hear their experiences... Anyway, I can use some advice. Anyone? :head

[Writing Again]

I've poked around Zoetrope and other places...Judging by the quality of the average script...If everyone in L.A. has an agent and a manager: There are either a lot of managers out there who are either idiots and can't tell a good script from a bad script, or there are a lot out there who are on the scam.

Sorry, but that statement makes me very leery of getting either one until they prove themselves to me.

Does that sound egotistical?

Maybe, but I don't want a Representative who will take me or anyone else on before they are ready: I do want a rep who can and will get things done.

Or I don't want one at all.

[SimonSays]

Harmony - if you are in LA - take the opportunity to network. Everything here is about connections and everyone here knows someone in the business or knows someone who knows someone in the business.

When I first moved here I got a temp gig in an architectural firm - the owner's wife turned out to be a successful screenwriter and one of the architect's girlfriends was an agents' assistant. Both OFFERED to read my spec and both helped me. In addition through them I met other people and was able to network even more.

It may seem like everyone here has a manager or agent the truth is the vast majority do not. If it seems like most scripts on Zoetrope are bad that's because most scripts in general are bad. It's either a lack of talent, or writers don't learn the fundamentals or a combination of both. Which is the reason I push learning the fundamentals so hard on these boards. Because even if you have talent - if you don't know the fundamentals you will get nowhere, and no one is going to take the time to tell you that you have talent but you need to learn the fundamentals - they are just going to reject you and pick up the next script on the pile.

I can't recommend any classes where agents speak or writer's groups, but I do suggest you consider attending a pitch event. There are a few different organizations that sponsor them on a fairly regular basis. Hollywood by the Bay has one coming up in February. Bona fide production companies, managers, and agencies do participate in these events, and they are looking for scripts and new talent. I personally know agents, producers and managers who have participated. They are not paid to attend these events (although you will have to pay to attend) they are there to give new writers a chance.

Good luck.

[JustinoXV]

Harmony:

From the example Simon gave, often people are much more likely to be willing to help you if they know you personally.

Look for work in the film industry. Or even internships. The more film industry experience you have (of any sort) will make people think you're a legitimate writer as opposed to an amateur who doesn't know how to write.

And while I do agree that knowing the proper format and structure is vital, whether or not prodcos and agents are willing to read your work still depends on what genre you have written, budget, etc.

As a script reader I was often told that the producers were looking for genre X, around a budget of X. Anything which did not fit these perimeters would be likely to be rejected.

So while you build up your industry contacts, KEEP querying (some people will ask to read you eventually).

If it comes to it, a good script consultant who evaluates your work (and think it is good or thinks that your rewrites are good), can put you in touch with producers and agents.

And if you submit to the producers who do allow unagented submissions, (possible), if you get a good solid offer you can go up to any decent sized agency for representation.

[HarmonyWriter]

I so appreciate all your advice and input -- yes, I will do as you suggest, except look for an internship since I have a time-strenuous job (as a writer, though not in the film industry, of course). Hollywood by the Bay sounds interesting but I hope I'm not naive but I need to learn how to pitch (sounds like I need to go to baseball camp, doesn't it?) I write because that's the one way I can be articulate; I'm not a terrific speaker or able to be concise or interesting in a meeting -- any suggestions? Networking should be my way in -- I actually bring in work for one of the BIG agencies but I've been put off every time I ask for an introduction to someone in the literary department. I get the "Sure, after you do this one last thing" line and I get exasperated. A couple of friends have told me that Sherwood Oaks Experimental College is a good place to go -- has anyone heard of that? And also that a gentleman named Rob Gallagher is the person to send a log line to. Anyone know anything about him? Let me just add that I am impressed by the knowledge and expertise at this board -- even the arguments are vigorously informative. Thanks for your time!
Harmony :rollin

[JustinoXV]

"I actually bring in work for one of the BIG agencies but I've been put off every time I ask for an introduction to someone in the literary department. I get the "Sure, after you do this one last thing" line and I get exasperated."

It sounds like you don't have the right working relationship with people there for them to recommend you to the literary department.

Basically, here is what writers should do. Write your script. Send out queries. Meanwhile, start work with your next script. After that is done, start querying. Exploit any contacts you have, and make any connections you can.

If you have a good script, a well written query can work!

[HarmonyWriter]

Yes, I probably don't have the right working relationship as I work at home and don't really socialize -- I'm not opposed to social stuff but I am the sole member of my little niche so there is a lot to be done and no one to help juggle the deadlines.

At the risk of sounding dumb, can you suggest a way to learn how query letters are constructed? I MUST be doing something wrong here not to even get a call back.

[JustinoXV]

"At the risk of sounding dumb, can you suggest a way to learn how query letters are constructed? I MUST be doing something wrong here not to even get a call back."

Basically, go to Barnes and Nobles (there are plenty in LA). There are magazines and books on screenwriting. Look for a book or magazine that shows how to construct a query letter.

Also, make sure you have a good logline in the first paragraph of you query letter.

Basically, the first paragraph of your query letter should have the logline and explain in further detail what the script is about.

The 2nd paragraph should mention your educational and professional background (try to keep it as relevant as possible).

The third paragraph should basically mention what market/demographic you envision this script going towards.

Of course, in the upper left corner of your query letter you have your name, address, email, telephone and/or cellphone. Don't bother with the self addressed/self stamped thing. If they are interested they will call you or email you.

Do get out and socialize. If they liked you on a personal basis they might be tempted to make introductions to the people at the lit department.

At times, screenwriters will be in situations where they need to pitch. So you should feel comfortable socializing in general and talking about your work.