Reading it out loud

[FJ and G]

I'm planning to do this for my 11th rewrite. Do you? Or, do you get more elaborate and get several people to read different character parts?

[kojled]

fj/g

i have done that and it did help. don't anymore


zilla

[SimonSays]

I always get a group of actors together to do a table reading.

Using actors is great because, well, they're actors so they don't just read the lines they "play the parts". I usually get them the script at least a week in advance, so it's not a cold read.

It's really helpful, because not only do you get to hear it being performed, but you can also get feedback from an actor's perspective, i.e. if there are scenes where they are unclear on motivation or whether or not you have developed the character the way you intended to.

[dpaterso]

I often read sections of dialogue out loud to check cadence, inflection, length, etc. My other half has queried whether I'm actually aware that I'm talking to myself using different voices.

My screenwriting software (mm2000) can read aloud but the voices are so monotonous and undramatic that it quickly becomes a frustration rather than an aid.

Simon, if you didn't have access to a bunch of actors, which most of us don't (can you believe it??) -- would you read your script out loud instead?

-Derek
-----------------------My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57)

[FJ and G]

"My other half has queried whether I'm actually aware that I'm talking to myself using different voices."

--------

Derek,

That is eerie. For someone with multiple personalities, reading the parts might get interesting, if they can remember what the last person said.

All joking aside, I'm looking forward to the "reading".

Fortunately (or unfortunately) I don't have another half so my beagle BB will have to endure the reading. Don't know any actors.

[dpaterso]

What joking aside? That is what I do, really. She was impressed when I had a scene featuring American, Scottish and English characters having an argument.

-Derek
-----------------------My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57)

[SimonSays]

Yeah, DPAT I probably would. But if I didn't personally know actors, I'd probably try to set-up a reading anyway. Maybe go to a local college that has a drama department or a local acting school or community theater.

I'm sure a lot of aspiring actors would be thrilled to get a chance to participate in a reading for what someday might be an actual movie. Even if there's no pay involved. Just spring for some munchies and beverages and make an evening of it.

You'd be amazed how people outside LA react when you say you need something for a script your working on. I once called to get some brochures and stuff for an inn because I wanted to set part of a spec there. When I told them why I wanted the info, they offered me a free weekend at the inn!

[FJ and G]

Simon,

Now that's an idea!

[joecalabre]

I am so glad for cell phones!

Now, when I am driving, it doesn't look like I'm a raving lunatic talking to himself.

I just hold my phone up to my ear as I run lines. Drives my wife crazy.

[FJ and G]

Joe,

Good one! Never thought of that.

With headphones, you don't even need to hold the cell to your ear to fake it.

[dchapma123]

I'm sure a lot of aspiring actors would be thrilled to get a chance to participate in a reading for what someday might be an actual movie. Even if there's no pay involved. Just spring for some munchies and beverages and make an evening of it.

As someone who has been both an aspiring actor and a writer, I can say you shouldn't expect actors to fall at your feet for the chance to read from a script that MIGHT be an actual movie. If you want to get actors, it really, really, really, REALLY helps if you know them. Or if you're willing to pay them something besides snacks for their trouble--twenty bucks perhaps.

Most actors (in my experience) aren't so naive as to not realize they're the ones doing a favor for you. But if you can put a good reading together, it really pays off.

You'll learn a lot, FJ and G. Pay special attention to the lines of dialogue the actors stumble over (especially if you've given them the script ahead of time). This is a good sign that your dialogue is awkward or unnatural.

[NikeeGoddess]

yeah - i agree w/ya there about the actors. they want to get something out of it too. if you belong to a screenwriting group it would probably be easier for you to do a table reading with them.

and don't forget to record it ;)

listen on!

[SimonSays]

I don't know if you're right that actors wouldn't be interested in doing it for nothing.

My first time - I only knew one of the actors. The rest were total strangers to me, some were even strangers to my actor friend. They were friends of friends of his.

They liked the challenge, they liked the chance to perform original material and practice their craft.

They used to do these table readings in new york at this little bar - there was a waiting list of people who wanted to participate - even though there were no industry people there.

It couldn't hurt to try posting a notice at a local college and see if you get any nibbles.

Just a thought

Simon

[JustinoXV]

I don't know that I would ask actors to do a reading on my screenplay.

I've done my internships, and they are over. I wouldn't feel right asking actors to read my screenplay,(basically help me correct it, and then turn around and sell it.

What would you for for these actors? Would you try to do referrals for them? Do you have something for them?

Of the two internships I had, one lead to the company considering one of my scripts (I'll find out soon) while someone else from the internship will provide me with a reference (if I decide to go out for a paying a film gig)

So at least I got something out of it. What would these actors be getting out of doing a reading for you?

I hope Simon, that you are not having kids read your work for free or for soda, essentially help you correct it, and then selling the screenplay for 6 digits or 1 million!

Why don't you write for free, if you want actors to act for free?

[SimonSays]

Gee Justino, you're very snide tonight - you must be on the rag or something.

Actually I think you misunderstood me - I said they READ my script - not write it and then they give me feedback, just like your mother (do you pay her to read your script?) only their feedback is from an actor's point of view (i.e. subtext of a scene and motivation). And the feedback is volunteered - not demanded.

I do not consider it taking advantage of anyone. They actually seem to enjoy doing it, based on the number of people who have OFFERED to do them for me without being asked. I or I should say WE see it as creating a creative community and supporting one another - the same way I do when I write a monolgue for a friend to perform at a showcase or when I fork over 15 bucks to go see an actor I know in some little indie at the Hollywood film Fest - or when I go to the Knitting Factory to see a friend's friends band play. Or convince a director to let a friend read for a part. Or sit through a pitch event to find projects for a producer that I know.

Reading your response I see that I truly lucked out with the people I've met in the business. We pay it forward, support each other as well as each other's friends. And through these experiences I've made even more friends - all of whom support me and want to do what they can to help me and vice versa.

I find it really quite sad that you find the idea so abhorent. Perhaps you've been in LA too long.

[JustinoXV]

In NYC and in LA, I've seen enough people asking for freebies from newbies. That's probably the source of my hostility to the scenario.

And actually, since LA has the main film industry, NYC is even worse than LA in asking for freebies from newbies.

I've known people who must have worked 70 hours a week for internships that gave them food (they were set PAs), but the indie film wanted to get as many free production assistants as it could.

[SimonSays]

Um - I really don't think you can compare an intern working 70 hours a week on a film the producer didn't bother to raise enough money for to cover costs - so he took advantage of everyone involved in the project and acted like he was doing THEM a favor - to 2 hours on a Wednesday night sitting in a comfortable living room with friends or strangers who share your passion - reading a comedy, eating pizza and drinking beer.

It's like comparing apples and elephants. And I still think there are many actors who just like the chance to work their craft - at least that's the sense I get from my friends who are actors. Especially when it's actors who haven't worked in awhile - they crave the opportunity to stretch their muscles. In fact, I know one actor who liked doing it so much he wanted set-up a network of actors and make themselves available to writers to do table reads. But he got a series, so the idea never went anywhere.

You got nothing to lose by trying. The worst that'll happen is you won't get any interest. It would even be worth it if you paid the actors if you don't know any who will help you out. I can't tell you how helpful it is - especially for comedies because you just never know if the jokes'll work or not.

[joecalabre]

I disagree with Justin, Nikee and Dchapha. To paraphrase, you guys said in effect "They won't do it for you for nothing. What do they get out of it?"

I can't speak for west coast actors, but in NYC and Boston, I have worked with actors who love the craft and will do readings for the experience of running lines with other actors. Most actors I know are sick of doing the same old Tennessee Williams' material over and over. Actors are always looking for fresh material to practice on. To broaden their range and expand their experience.

My writing group regularly uses actors to run lines. They see our ad for writers to joins and we get calls from actors. They contact us. Go figure.

[SimonSays]

Yeah Joe - even in LA there are actors who have the same passion for their craft that we, as writers do for ours.

We're lucky - all we need is a powered up battery in our laptops to write. Actors need material, and often other people, since so much of that craft is interacting.

Well, I for one will continue to impose on the actors I know.

[JustinoXV]

"I disagree with Justin, Nikee and Dchapha. To paraphrase, you guys said in effect "They won't do it for you for nothing. What do they get out of it?"

I never said you can't find people who will do it for free. I said I wouldn't ask them to do it for free, since I'm not into giving away freebies myself.

And I said that when I did do things that didn't pay much, I still got something in return that majorly benefitted me. (I got something out of it).

Still, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, too. Would either of you two donate your writing skills for free?

Of the types of actors who I've known who are interested in doing things for free, I've known so many that end homeless. Freebies end you on welfare or on the street!

[JustinoXV]

I do agree with DChampa, serious actors in general aren't going to throw themselves at a chance to do a reading for screenplays. Reading are done primilary in theatre, not in film.

B: Those actors, especially college students, don't have much money. If you are truly are working writer, you should pay them for their time, if only $20 or so like DChampa said.

If any show promise, you should be willing do to recommendations or referrals.

[JustinoXV]

I've got one more comment to make. I did extra work in a couple of indie films. I still managed to get paid. Even no budget films at least offer the indie actor credit and things to add to his/her reel and resume (which could lead to future work)

[joecalabre]

Still, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, too. Would either of you two donate your writing skills for free?

I belong to several writing groups and read no less than four scripts per month (and numerous rewrites). I usually give a minimum of six pages of extensive notes to my colleagues and they in turn do the same when I submit.

ALL FOR FREE.

The actors we deal with enjoy the coffee and donuts we have on the table, we talk about films and bitch about the direction of the industry for several hours. A good time had by all. Sometimes, the actors even video tape the readings to add to a show reel.

These actor's do it for experience. One guy has been in several films and makes a decent living at it, yet still, he comes and enjoys the good company, the networking and it gives him new, fresh material to help hone his skills. He (and the others) do it to help us and themselves. We do so out of respect for each other's work, without regard to "what's in it for me."

[dchapma123]

I'm all for the spirit of helping fellow artists. But I think you're offbase if you believe "serious actors interested in improving their craft" are the people you're going to get as volunteers to do your reading.

You're more likely to get people that think this reading will be a stepping stone. That you're going to see how good they are and CAST them in the film (even though you're only the writer). There are also actors who will leap at every possible opportunity to show off, which is akin to sending your script to anyone who shows the slightest interest. The problem with that, of course, is that a lot of people that claim "interest" can't actually do a darn thing for you.

It strikes me odd--and JustinoXV alluded to this--whenever anyone on this board suggests it might be okay to do something "for free", the response is outrageous. "Real writers get paid!" is the response. It's entirely possible that you'll find good actors willing to help you out, but the decent, PROFESSIONAL thing to do is compensate them appropriately. If you believe making the experience as fun and interesting as possible is sufficient compensation, more power to you.

Oh, and one more thing: be honest about your credentials and the status of your career. Your private table reading isn't going to be anyone's big break, and you need to be up front about that.

If you're involved in a network of would-be actors and writers who get together regularly, that's another matter entirely. That sounds like a support system, and it's good that those exist.

[joecalabre]

When have I not been honest about my credentials?

[dchapma123]

I wasn't speaking to you specifically, Joe. I was speaking in general to anyone that wants to hold a reading.

[JustinoXV]

"If you're involved in a network of would-be actors and writers who get together regularly, that's another matter entirely. That sounds like a support system, and it's good that those exist."

I agree with D here. Your network of screenwriters and actors is good. But since you support each other, it isn't a matter of someone getting someone to do something for them for free. I'm aware of such groups, but I wasn't talking about support groups and networks. I'm critical of people who say that they would never write for free, yet they expect actors to act for free and help them with their scripts. (in a situation where they will likely never do anything for the actor). The least you could do is pay the actor for his/her time.

[SimonSays]

Justino - I get the feeling you don't know many actors.

None of the actors that I know are hobbyists - they are all pursuing their dreams or have achieved a certain amount of succees.

I've had working actors - sitcom stars, successful commercial actors, soap regulars and even one renowned Shakespearean and Broadway actor all participate in various table readings. I've also had some struggling actors do them for me.

I arrange table readings for my specs only. If I'm doing work for hire, the producers have arranged them. To my knowledge the producers didn't pay the actors either - maybe some of them saw it as a chance to audition using more than just sides. But whatever their motivation, I never heard one actor gripe that they didn't get paid or express any feeling that they should have.

Some of these actors are very very close friends of mine. If they thought I should pay the people they brought in - they would tell me.

One of my friends was a regular particpant in a play reading series years ago. The whole cast would rehearse with a director the day before the reading - so it took about 6 or 8 hours of their time total. People like Peter Falk, Christian Slater and Jean Smart would partiticpate - NONE OF THEM GOT PAID.

And yes to answer your question I have done some writing for nothing. I've written scenes for actor friends of mine to perform. I've written scenes for writer friends of mine who were stuck and needed help.

I will not write for a producer for nothing. I will not sell my specs for less than I believe they are worth. But I will help my friends and my friend's friends.

It's interesting to me that you find the thought of asking an actor to do this so appalling and yet you have no problem approaching a total stranger and asking them to take a few hours of their time to read your script and give you feedback. Sounds like you have more respect for actors than for your fellow writers.

[Writing Again]

I've done things for free in the past, for friends, for clubs, for my own enjoyment, to pay back a favor. I imagine I will always do a few things for free. I have written stage plays for scouts, schools, etc, and had a lot of fun doing it.

Even if I were a top page screenwriter I would imagine there would be things I would do for free for the same reasons as I did in the past.

[JustinoXV]

"yet you have no problem approaching a total stranger and asking them to take a few hours of their time to read your script and give you feedback. Sounds like you have more respect for actors than for your fellow writers."

I don't ever recall asking a total stranger to read my script and give feedback.

The only screenwriters I have considered asking for feedback recently where professional script consultants. I would have paid them. I decided not to go with them for now, because I got enough positive feedback from various submissions not to bother with script consultants for now.

The only writer I've had read my scripts for free and give me feedback was Maia, who no longer comes to these boards. But she used to always post everywhere that she helped beginners for free.

I have had script readers and various assistants read my work for feedback, but those people are always looking for scripts that can possibly pass on. So they didn't read my work out of the kindness of their hearts.

Only person I've come across like that was Maia.

[SimonSays]

Actually Justino, you did ask a total stranger to look at your work. That stranger was me. You sent me an email back in August. The title of that email?

"would you be willing to critique my work"

And incidentally there was no offer of payment in the request.

[JustinoXV]

I sent no such email in August, not even sure if I was posting then.

I solicit a few people earlier, and you might have been one of them. Usually, if people are willing to do it, they email you back with their fees.

[Optimus Maximus]

Wow. Ya know, I've had professional writers (one of which has written two very big comedies from the past 5 years) read some of my work/comment on ideas of mine, and they never even hinted at wanting compensation.

I also know actors that will read stuff for free. They seem quite serious about their work. This notion of "serious actors" not doing stuff like this is as ludicrous as it is presumptively elitist. Most actors act because they love it. The "compensation" they receive in doing a reading of a script is that they get to ACT; they get to practice their chops and see how they can sharpen their skills within the context of this new material.

The fact that Justino and others have had negative experiences as the ones they've described seems odd, to me. I'd encourage them to meet more actors and more writers. Because, the REALLY good and professional ones WON'T charge you. They'll do it because they love the profession.

(p.s. Justino, just because I disagreed with you and think your opinion is 99% wrong 99% of the time, please don't come back and threaten to pee on my mom's face, beat me up, stab me, and drive to FL and shoot me like you did in chat that got you banned from Done Deal).

[SimonSays]

Well I guess I was one of those people and it WAS in August. August 9th to be exact @ 11:42:09 am from Justino IV.

The info for the email still appears in my inbox. Hell I didn't even know I had an inbox on this board till September.

I found it very strange that you'd even ask as unlike Maia - I never offered my services to anyone here free or otherwise.

I don't like being called a liar. I might be loud and opinionated and rude at times, but I do not lie.

If you are not Justino IV and he is your evil twin or something, I apologize for the accusation.

[Writing Again]

I just thought, I have a pretty good video camera set up.

Would it make sense to set it up, do the parts into it myself, then play it back?

I'm hardly an actor, but what the heck? What is there to lose but some time?

[dpaterso]

I think you're all making a mistake in assuming JustinoIV and JustinoXV are the same person. It's more likely they're different personas undergoing different types of delusional psychosis therapy. What is certain is that there will be other Justinos. Skynet keeps sending them back. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead. (With apologies to James Cameron.)

-Derek
-----------------------My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57)

[joecalabre]

I can say with certain degree of comfort that all promutations of Justino are one and the same.

Both have the same writing style and a singular personality that remains consistant in each of his/their posts.

One would think, like computers or software, that each newer Justino would evolve to a more advanced model with better features or lower crash rate, but I see no difference between v4.0 and v15.0 and wouldn't pay for the upgrade.

[SimonSays]

I did not mean to turn this into a bash Justino board. I actually think that he has many good things to contribute.

I just have issues with being portrayed as an exploiter and a liar - as I pride myself on having a lot of integrity.

Peace Out,
Simon

[joecalabre]

Niether was I. Please Justino, don't take offence as my humor tends to be dry.