The Iceman Eventually Cometh....

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ChaosTitan

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If you've seen "The Iceman Cometh," you probably understand the title of the thread. I saw the Kevin Spacey revival years ago in New York, and it's something like halfway into the play before the titular character arrives on the scene. But that's okay, because (as I understood it), the play wasn't really about him, but about all of the characters in the ensemble cast.

I have reached a bit of a quandry with a recently finished manuscript. The novel is an ensemble piece, with four main characters, plus a handful of supporting characters. Think of Stephen King's "IT" and its six protagonists. You could pick out Bill is the central protag, but the story really belongs to all of them.

In writing the hook, I decided to find our "Bill" and focus it on that character. Query advice always suggests you focus on one character, and mention up to one or two other supporting characters. Well, Alannah (our "Bill") is on-screen for a good amount of the story, and she undergoes the most dramatic change during the course of the story. The hook was easy enough to write about her.

Trouble is (here's the point of the post) she doesn't appear in the novel until Chapter Four (about 45 pages into the story). The first three chapters are devoted to meeting two of the other main characters and one supporter. Then we get to meet Alannah.

This feels like a big no-no. That any agent expecting pages about Alannah will be peeved if they get the first three chapters and meet three other people. Yes?

Unless the writing and the story hooked them enough (God willing, right?) to not care? One in a million chance, I bet.

The chapters work best in this order because events conspire to drawn the characters together, but can be tailored to refit if it becomes necessary to change them around.

So any thoughts or advice are greatly appreciated. I almost feel like I've got something to ask Miss Snark about. ;)
 

PeeDee

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I am neither agent, nor editor, I am author (hear me mutter). Take my advice with whatever salt you like.

I don't think it's a problem. You're detailing your main storyline, so to speak, in your outline, but the first three chapters are mainly there to show that you can get a reader interested, you can keep a reader interested for longer than five pages, and you can get the story moving.

How can an agent/editor truly and honestly know that your outline isn't related to your first three chapters? Maybe it is, but we don't know how until chapter four?

I think it'd be like the agent getting mad because chapter's one through three don't detail all the other bits and pieces from the outline, including the middle and the ending. That is to say, I don't think it's a problem.

So sayeth me.
 

Allie

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I don't have a ton of experience here, but I've heard that agents and publishers look for any reason, any reason at all, to reject your work. There are literally thousands of manuscripts available for sale at any time. So, I can't answer your question specifically, but I think you may have answered it yourself.
 

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My opinion, of course. I think it will probably be an excuse for an agent/editor to send you a nice rejection. That, however, does not mean that the story is not well-written and worthy of publishing. There is the one-in-X chance that you mentioned for an agent/editor to look beyond the late arrival and accept the story. There is an even greater chance that the story will be acceptable after you have a following and a rapport with a publisher.

I say keep it if you believe in it, but be ready to shelve it for a while if it doesn't find the acceptance you're looking for. (Wow, that really didn't say what I wanted it to. I hope the context conveyed my meaning to you Chaos)

Amiton.
 

Julie Worth

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I had a thriller rejected by an agency after the reader (a romance author) said I had too many main characters. Pick one, she said, and rewrite your book using his POV. What an idiot!

Fortunately, I didn't have your problem with the query, as the most central of the main characters was predominant in the opening chapters.
 

ChaosTitan

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Amiton said:
I say keep it if you believe in it, but be ready to shelve it for a while if it doesn't find the acceptance you're looking for. (Wow, that really didn't say what I wanted it to. I hope the context conveyed my meaning to you Chaos)

It did, and thanks. ;)

Pisarz said:
I'm going to add to the main question with one of my own: Is it OK to wait until chapter 3 or 4 to introduce a supporting character who will remain integral to the story for the rest of the book?

In my opinion, yes. Supporting characters exist to support the main character(s), and should be introduced when their role becomes necessary.


Thanks for all the opinions, folks. I'm off to ponder....
 

LloydBrown

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When I read a book, I expect the story to begin with the protagonist. I don't mind a short excerpt beforehand showing me the villain (like in a crime story), or a scene-setting vignette, but when the story starts going, Chapter 1 should start with the protag.
 

ChaosTitan

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LloydBrown said:
When I read a book, I expect the story to begin with the protagonist. I don't mind a short excerpt beforehand showing me the villain (like in a crime story), or a scene-setting vignette, but when the story starts going, Chapter 1 should start with the protag.

I do, as well. The problem is that the novel is an ensemble piece without a single protagonist. I picked one character for the purpose of the query/hook, because there's no emotional attachment to a generic "they" in reference to the team as a whole.

:Headbang:
 

jpserra

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Julie Worth said:
I had a thriller rejected by an agency after the reader (a romance author) said I had too many main characters. Pick one, she said, and rewrite your book using his POV. What an idiot!

Fortunately, I didn't have your problem with the query, as the most central of the main characters was predominant in the opening chapters.

I had a book rejected because I had too many characters. He said there was too much to keep track of.

I have about 15 characters of name in this book, and when I compare that to others, even best sellers, I wonder were he was coming from. I have a strong central character with two heavy supporting characters; sidekick and love interest. I don't get it.

John Serra
 

Allie

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In the same boat

Pisarz said:
I'm going to add to the main question with one of my own: Is it OK to wait until chapter 3 or 4 to introduce a supporting character who will remain integral to the story for the rest of the book?

In my novel, I have a supporting character who doesn't come into play until Chapter 19. He is a "plot complication" that leads the heroine away from her previous life. He cannot come in any sooner, or he wouldn't be a plot twist.

I don't know if it matters when a supporting character comes in as long as it is logical to the story, and as long as it isn't at the very end.
 

Dru

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The question I'd ask is: Does the story start at chapter 1 or chapter 4?

I would think a lot of readers might feel 'cheated' if they had to wait around for several chapters to 'get going' in the story, or that the first character is not the 'protagonist'/lead. Unless it's a sleepy, meandering story, in which case it might work all right.

Not sure were I read/heard it: Readers are like ducklings. They imprint like crazy. If you want them to identify with the current "main" protag, then I'd look at introducing them sooner.
 

ChaosTitan

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Dru said:
The question I'd ask is: Does the story start at chapter 1 or chapter 4?

Well, at the very latest, the story starts at Chapter 2 and the intro of one of the four leads. Chapter 1 serves the story much in the way opening chapter of thrillers show the "killer stalking the big breasted blonde who ends up murdered in an alley" (simplifying! Please don't dog-pile!).

I am leaning toward reordering the opening chapters. If nothing else it puts the "protag" in Chapter Two, instead of Four.
 

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I think that reworking the query is the way to go. There has to be a way to use an ensemble as your hook. I'd be more inclined to change my letter than restructure my novel.
 

Philip64

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Some suggestions

It's rare that novels have sets of characters who are equally central. Even books like those of Tony Parsons (light but literate UK writer who has sold shed loads of books about 20/ 30 somethings in contemporary Britain) which specialise in having up to 6 major characters ultimately lean more towards some than others. This is largely because readers - and writers too, for that matter - do like to get involved with the fate of a particular character, if they can. It isn't the be-all-and-end-all, but it undoubtedly helps. The fact that you have pitched your story as one having a protagonist suggests that you know it really ought to be that way (maybe).

Assuming you have decided that you have a 'main man' (or woman) here are a few ideas that might help, if you haven't thought of them already.

A character can be important to a chapter without actually being in it. The book I am writing now introduces the protagonist in chapter 3. However, he has been specifically talked about in both chapters 1 & 2. It can be quite useful to build up curiosity about a character by having other people talk or think about him in advance (assuming what is said about them is interesting, of course!). The fact that these other characters have a partial view, makes it easier to pique the reader's interest.

If that won't work for your story and you're worried that your protagonist is coming in too late, try juggling the order in which you describe events. In fiction you do not have to be chronological. However you want to introduce your protagonist, just start your book there (assuming it's a strong opening) and then rewind if necessary. You'd be surprised how ready readers are to accept this, as long as you do it only when you need to. (Think of the movie 'Pulp Fiction' if you want a vivid example of "rewind" being used to good effect.)

If that doesn't work, think about starting the narrative at a different, later, point and deal with the existing content of the early chapters as back story. (This is subtly different from the above.)

If that won't work, try writing a prologue at the start that does involve your protaganist. It can be two pages long. So long as we get interested in him/her we will wait a while to see him/her again.

In short, put your best foot forward and subordinate structural and chronological considerations to that.

That said, it may not actually matter that your protagonist is absent from the opening chapters. In some stories that's almost unavoidable. But if your story is truly character-led (as opposed to plot-led) then you should probably address the issue in one way or another.
 
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ChaosTitan

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Philip, thank you for your in depth suggestions.

Philip64 said:
A character can be important to a chapter without actually being in it. The book I am writing now introduces the protagonist in chapter 3. However, he has been specifically talked about in both chapters 1 & 2.

This may be the solution I needed. Thanks again!
 
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