About the use of Ellipsis

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ErylRavenwell

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The use of ellipsis is fraught with controversy. I want to hear everyone opinion on the use of the ellipses. Also, what punctuation mark do you use at the end of a quotation that has been abruptly interrupted (also controversial), as like someone cutting into a conversation?
 
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Duncan J Macdonald

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ErylRavenwell said:
The use of ellipsis is fraught with controversy. I want to hear everyone opinion on the use of the ellipses. Also, what punctuation mark do you use at the end of a quotation that has been abruptly interrupted (also controversial), as like someone cutting into a conversation?
"Hey, Maynard! You gotta..."
"No I don't."
"...hear this!"
"Hear what?"
"This. Says right here in the paper that Rocco was framed. '...but aside from that, nothing happened. Honest!' Who don't believe Rocco?"
"His mother."
 

Bufty

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Maybe just me, but I wouldn't have used any ellipses at all in that exchange. Only a personal preference probably, but an em dash would seem preferable to indicate the original interruption and beyond that - nothing.

The 'hear this' placing/addition seems to me like an unnecessary complication.

I use an ellipsis for a tailing off - not an interruption.


Duncan J Macdonald said:
"Hey, Maynard! You gotta..."
"No I don't."
"...hear this!"
"Hear what?"
"This. Says right here in the paper that Rocco was framed. '...but aside from that, nothing happened. Honest!' Who don't believe Rocco?"
"His mother."
 
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Julie Worth

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Duncan J Macdonald said:
"Hey, Maynard! You gotta..."
"No I don't."
"...hear this!"
"Hear what?"
"This. Says right here in the paper that Rocco was framed. '...but aside from that, nothing happened. Honest!' Who don't believe Rocco?"
"His mother."

No. In the case of interrupted speech, use an em-dash. Use ellipsis for trailing off, or for pauses. For pauses, it's generally better to avoid the ellipsis and put a tag there, or a bit of action.
 
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Carmy

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Use an ellipsis for dialogue that trails off with unspoken words (often with the words supplied by the reader).

Use an em-dash if words are cut off abruptly, usually by another character or something happens to cut off speech.
 

ErylRavenwell

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Carmy said:
Use an ellipsis for dialogue that trails off with unspoken words (often with the words supplied by the reader).

Use an em-dash if words are cut off abruptly, usually by another character or something happens to cut off speech.

Agree. I use em dash too nowadays. Initially, I was doing the same mistake of using ellipsis, but on second thought and looking at examples in books, it dawned on me ellipses are merely substitutes for omitted words. A dialogue is a dynamic interaction, no words are being omitted; the individual is simply being cut off, one might say physically. It is logical something else is used to mark the interruption.

Thanks for the input.
 
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TrainofThought

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I use ellipsis during interruption in dialogue, or when a character doesn’t know what to say or how to respond. I only use ellipsis in dialogue.

“I told you not to…”
“Shut up.”

Or

“I just thought…maybe”

As for the dash, I use it when I want to emphasize a phrase or word. This is just my preference.
 
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ErylRavenwell

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TrainofThought said:
I use ellipsis during interruption in dialogue, or when a character doesn’t know what to say or how to respond. I only use ellipsis in dialogue.

“I told you not to…”
“Shut up.”

Or

“I just thought…maybe”

As for the dash, I use it when I want to emphasize a phrase or word. This is just my preference.

You mind giving us an example of a well-known writer who uses ellipsis during an interruption in dialogue. I've seen instances of the use of ellipsis to mark an interruption (I'm not saying you are wrong here), but most contemporary writers use the em bash.

Your input much appreciated.
 

TrainofThought

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ErylRavenwell said:
You mind giving us an example of a well-known writer who uses ellipsis during an interruption in dialogue. I've seen instances of the use of ellipsis to mark an interruption (I'm not saying you are wrong here), but most contemporary writers use the em bash.

Your input much appreciated.
Well, maybe I have been using it wrong. Honestly, I don’t look at proper punctuation in dialogue when I read a book. It isn’t something that sticks out for me.

I dislike ellipsis when used throughout a paragraph when writing in posts. I realize it is acceptable, but I don’t like it. As for the em dash, maybe it is the proper punctuation to use when dialogue is cut off, but I don’t like it either. So, I guess I will look over my WIP and make appropriate changes. Writing is a continued learning experience. Thanks for the information.
 

Bufty

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If the dialogue trails off, it is an ellipsis.

If the dialogue is interrupted by another speaker, it is an em dash. It's not a question of doubt, or liking it - it's what an em dash or an ellipsis signify at the end of a person's dialogue.

TrainofThought said:
As for the em dash, maybe it is the proper punctuation to use when dialogue is cut off, but I don’t like it either.
 

TrainofThought

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Bufty said:
If the dialogue trails off, it is an ellipsis.

If the dialogue is interrupted by another speaker, it is an em dash. It's not a question of doubt, or liking it - it's what an em dash or an ellipsis signify at the end of a person's dialogue.
Yes, I know, it has been clarified already. I can still make a statement regarding whether I like or agree with the proper form of punctuation.
 

Maryn

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Be aware, too, that when you do use ellipses on purpose, there's a blank space (which I'll represent with an up-arrow) at the end of the series of three periods.

How had it gotten so late? There was barely enough time to...^to what? Something he had to do before five...^ Damn it, he needed to write these things down.

That's not how I'd punctuate this if it was in my WIP, but hey, an off-the-cuff ellipses example, what do you want?

Maryn, who recently had to slap someone's knuckles for the second time for not putting a blank space after periods or commas
 

ErylRavenwell

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Maryn said:
Be aware, too, that when you do use ellipses on purpose, there's a blank space (which I'll represent with an up-arrow) at the end of the series of three periods.

How had it gotten so late? There was barely enough time to...^to what? Something he had to do before five...^ Damn it, he needed to write these things down.

That's not how I'd punctuate this if it was in my WIP, but hey, an off-the-cuff ellipses example, what do you want?

Maryn, who recently had to slap someone's knuckles for the second time for not putting a blank space after periods or commas

Great that you bring this issue to the discussion, Maryn. I personally don't use any space. I tend to go with the simplest solution (i.e, three dots without space)--the influence of my engineering background. Never-cram-your-brain-with-unnecessary-information kind of approach that the dilettante side of me tend to resist.

Anyway, this quote might be of interest to some of you. Quoted from wikipedia (to be taken with a pinch of salt).

[edit] Ellipsis in English

The Chicago Manual of Style suggests the use of an ellipsis (also known as an ellipse) for any omitted word, phrase, line or paragraph from within a quoted passage. There are two commonly used methods of using ellipses: one uses three dots for any omission, the second makes a distinction between omissions within a sentence (using three dots: ...) and omissions between sentences (using a period and a space followed by three nonbreaking-spaced dots: . . . .). Therefore, there is no such thing as a "four-dot ellipsis." A period followed by an ellipsis may look like four dots, but they are two separate entities.
Although some write ellipses without spaces, some institutions, such as the Oxford University Press, place one space in front of three non-spaced periods. Thus: “I have seen something ...” instead of “I have seen something...” The exception here is when a word has been cut off in the middle; that is, when the ellipsis stands for a part of one word: “‘He said he realized he was wro…’ I stopped mid-word, awestruck.” (In English this is often written as “‘He said he realized he was wro—’ I stopped mid-word, awestruck.”)
 
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brer

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This subject has come up often. There are a few old threads on this in this forum. Threads dealing with ellipses/ellipsis and em-dash (dash). When to use one, when to use the other.

For quick pragmatic info, I'd suggest reading Obstfeld's Fiction First Aid, 2002 (2001). He covers it well, imo, on pages 276-277.

Or look up the older threads. But I'd suggest reading that section in Obstfeld's book.

(And yes, a lot of the older work in print messes up the usages of em-dashes and ellipsis.)
 

Maryn

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I dunno, I find that both Oxford and Chicago are aimed at academia. Fiction press seems to deal with ellipses differently than academic presses do.

But hey, if I don't make a sale, I doubt it'll be my ellipses at fault.

Maryn, looking with suspicion at commas
 

Sandi LeFaucheur

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I can just imagine an editor sitting at her desk, shaking her head sorrowfully. "Such a wonderful book. Thrilling plot, fantastic characters, lyrical narrative. It would have been number one on the best seller list for months. Could have become a blockbuster movie. If only . . . if only . . . if only she hadn't got her ellipses and her em-dashes muddled." With a thud, the manuscript--perfect, but for dastardly dashes and erroneous ellipses--hit the waste basket. The editor, unable to take her heartbreak, turns to the window and jumps.
 

ErylRavenwell

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Sandi LeFaucheur said:
I can just imagine an editor sitting at her desk, shaking her head sorrowfully. "Such a wonderful book. Thrilling plot, fantastic characters, lyrical narrative. It would have been number one on the best seller list for months. Could have become a blockbuster movie. If only . . . if only . . . if only she hadn't got her ellipses and her em-dashes muddled." With a thud, the manuscript--perfect, but for dastardly dashes and erroneous ellipses--hit the waste basket. The editor, unable to take her heartbreak, turns to the window and jumps.

Right on spot. The use of ellipse is such a triviality. But then again life is euphemiously the sum of trivialities. Much like the individual stroke of paint on a canvas, which is almost insignicant by itself, but collectively, voila, you have Pollock's Number 5.
 

SeanDSchaffer

I personally use two dashes myself....but that's only because I have a typewriter and it cannot produce an em dash.

ETA:
I generally use the ellipse to indicate someone trailing off in their talk, or pausing momentarily in their speech.
 
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Julie Worth

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Sandi LeFaucheur said:
I can just imagine an editor sitting at her desk, shaking her head sorrowfully. "Such a wonderful book. Thrilling plot, fantastic characters, lyrical narrative. It would have been number one on the best seller list for months. Could have become a blockbuster movie. If only . . . if only . . . if only she hadn't got her ellipses and her em-dashes muddled." With a thud, the manuscript--perfect, but for dastardly dashes and erroneous ellipses--hit the waste basket. The editor, unable to take her heartbreak, turns to the window and jumps.

Little things can be pet peeves with editors, so best to get everything right.

I've heard of an editor going through the first few pages looking for the first semi-colon. If it was wrong, then he rejected the submission.

And I’ve rejected an editor after I looked up a thriller she'd edited and found that she'd used ellipses for em-dashes, and vice versa.

 
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