Market or Passion?

[ps1]

So here I am looking over my latest Writer's Digest, and for the first time I've found something really helpful in writing. It's talking about putting an outline together, and character profile and what not. However, when I started looking over past issues, I found a consistent article or topic. Something along the lines of:

How to Write for "X" Market that is Really Selling.

Something to that effect. Do other writers really change their story, or what they write, in order to sell a book?

I haven't sold a book yet, and I may never. I write in a more neo-noir love story style, and I realize that it's something that will probably get me next to John Grisham. But that's my style, that's my passion. I can't see a writer changing their style, just so they can get a novel sold.

Does anyone else feel this way? Or, has someone changed their style and got it sold, so then their next novel they could write how they wanted? Maybe I fancy myself too much of an artist, or bohemian, or something like that. Am I missing it?

[oswann]

Get to the end of writing the book then tell us how you feel. Number one passion is to finish the WIP.


Os.

[seanie blue]

Agree 100% with Os.

Don't read Writer's Digest while you're writing your novel! That's like trying to read the instruction manual for a toaster while riding a snorting dragon. Throw that silly mag into the trash and channel the passion.

[expatbrat]

I definitely have the market (stereotypical group of readers) in mind as I write my book. I think you need to know who will be reading the book so you can write in a way that will appeal to them.

When I write articles for magazines I always ask who the target readership is so I can slant the article in a way that appeals to those readers. I think you should do the same with a novel.

As for writing for what is hot now; it takes so damm long to write and publish a book that if you kept trying to markets the current hot topic you would be rushing about a week too late on every topic. I think you are better off writing something that greatly appeals to you and hope that there is a bigger enough market of readers who like the same stuff as you do.

[bsolah]

I write stories that I'd like to read, not what others like to read. My thinking is, I can only try to guess what others like and probably get it wrong, or I write what I like and get it right. The idea that you can't get published if you write what you like makes the assumption that your taste in reading is completely unique. Surely, someone has the same tastes as you.

[Mike Coombes]

Passion is what gives the fireworks, and fireworks is what makes me happy as a reader. If it happens to coincide with what's hot currently, it's a bonus.

The alternative is writing by numbers, which is as boring to read as it is to write.

[zornhau]

Passion is what gives the fireworks, and fireworks is what makes me happy as a reader. If it happens to coincide with what's hot currently, it's a bonus.

The alternative is writing by numbers, which is as boring to read as it is to write.

On the contrary! This is a false antithesis. If you hear them speak, I think the best pro writers have a passion for entertaining the reader.

Imagine being story teller at a winter fireside. Wouldn't you pitch your tales to please your audience? Isn't that part of the fun?

Writing fiction is similarly interactive, it's just the feedback loop has a greater delay.

[Momento Mori]

ps1:
I can't see a writer changing their style, just so they can get a novel sold.

I think it all depends on why you're writing. If you're writing first and foremost because you want to get your story down on paper, then writing with passion can carry that through (and I'm all in favour of anything that gets you to finish x thousand words and complete a manuscript).

However, (and I'm just stating my opinion here without any intention of causing offence), writing with passion and your own style isn't necessarily going to appeal to people. Therefore, if you're looking at getting your manuscript to a publisher, I think that you've got to take a step back during the editing and rewriting process to work out if your style is actually readable by the general public. If you write in a particular genre, then I think you need to have at least a nodding acquaintance with what sells in that genre so you can make sure that your work is pitched correctly.

I'm not suggesting that people completely compromise their work to whatever the herd mentality demands, but I think you need to be aware of what's out there if you're serious about looking to sell. There's always room for unique voices out there in every genre, but really look at what you're doing to work out if you have come up with something unique and sellable, or whether your passion has made you over-indulgent to your work.

Like I said, I don't intend any offence by saying that.

MM

[Jamesaritchie]

Passion is what gives the fireworks, and fireworks is what makes me happy as a reader. If it happens to coincide with what's hot currently, it's a bonus.

The alternative is writing by numbers, which is as boring to read as it is to write.

I tend to agree. Writing for the market is just not something very many writers can pull off. Good writers don't write for teh market, they make the market.

[Jamesaritchie]

On the contrary! This is a false antithesis. If you hear them speak, I think the best pro writers have a passion for entertaining the reader.

Imagine being story teller at a winter fireside. Wouldn't you pitch your tales to please your audience? Isn't that part of the fun?

Writing fiction is similarly interactive, it's just the feedback loop has a greater delay.

Yes, but this does not mean pro writers write for the market. Every pro writer I know writes out of passion. That is, they write what they most love writing, and they write it in the way they would most want to read it.

I think the worst possible way to please your audience is to write to the market, thinking, well, I need to do this, that, and then the other because that's what readers will like.

The best pro writer always write the novel they would love to read themselves, the novel they have a passion for, not the novel they think readers will love.

You hope readers will love the tale, of course, but unless you love it, unless you're telling the story you care about, in the way you want to do it, odds are no one but your mother is going to like it.

[zornhau]

Yes, but presumably most of them can choose from a range of ideas swarming around in their heads.

[Jamesaritchie]

Yes, but presumably most of them can choose from a range of ideas swarming around in their heads.

Sure, but they're always going to pick the one they have passion for. Trying to write a novel that doesn't first and foremost please and excite you is akin to watching paint dry.

I just do not believe anyone can write very well at all by trying to write for some audience out there, rather than writing something that instills passion in the writer. You may get published by writing to teh market, but I sincerely doubt your book will make a splash. More like a dull thud when it hits bottom.

[zornhau]

Sure, but they're always going to pick the one they have passion for. Trying to write a novel that doesn't first and foremost please and excite you is akin to watching paint dry.

I just do not believe anyone can write very well at all by trying to write for some audience out there, rather than writing something that instills passion in the writer. You may get published by writing to teh market, but I sincerely doubt your book will make a splash. More like a dull thud when it hits bottom.

Agreed!

I just think it's important to make the point that there's nothing wrong with selecting from your possible projects with a market in mind.

"Don't marry for money. But look for love where money is."

[ChaosTitan]

Something along the lines of:

How to Write for "X" Market that is Really Selling.


It must have been a while since I picked up Writer's Digest. I remember those "How To" articles tended to focus on freelance writing markets, rather than hot novel markets. :Shrug:

[Jamesaritchie]

Agreed!

I just think it's important to make the point that there's nothing wrong with selecting from your possible projects with a market in mind.

"Don't marry for money. But look for love where money is."

Yes, I think having a market in mind is a good idea. I do this with short stories on a regular basis. But I still right the story I want to write, and do my best to write it in a way that works for me.

I'm not sure it's as important with novels because the marketing system is different, and there's a much better chance of a novel finding the market that's right for it, rather than trying to preconceive a market.

Just my experience, but with novels, I've found the writer is often surprised by which publisher actually buys his first novel. It seldom seems to be the one the writer had in mind.

And sometimes I think it's easier to sell fiction when the writer comes up with something new, and the short story or novel makes its own market. This is a very tough act to pull off, but it's the way many of the writing superstars are made.

But, really, in the end, I think it always comes down to a good story, well-told, good characters, well-rounded, and good dialogue, well-spoken.
If you can do this, the market will take care of itself.

[Gillhoughly]

Always and ever write what turns you on, never write for a trend.

By the time you've finished the work, the trend is pushing up daisies, but your passion will never go out of style.

For the last 20 years I've been told the "trend" for which I write is over, but I have a passion for its themes, so I keep selling. I ignore how other writers deal with it and go with what turns me on about it. That passion keeps me different from the rest and readers pick up on that.

And what the others said: lose the cheesy writing magazine. Fast. Hit the 808 section of the library instead and look up how-to books by writers with a serious track record of sales.

Good luck!

[Nickie]

My advice: write what you really like to do - perhaps it can catch on, perhaps not. But the most important thing is that you feel happy about it (as goes for most things).


Nickie

[Éclairer]

Yes, but this does not mean pro writers write for the market. Every pro writer I know writes out of passion. That is, they write what they most love writing, and they write it in the way they would most want to read it.

I think the worst possible way to please your audience is to write to the market, thinking, well, I need to do this, that, and then the other because that's what readers will like.

The best pro writer always write the novel they would love to read themselves, the novel they have a passion for, not the novel they think readers will love.

You hope readers will love the tale, of course, but unless you love it, unless you're telling the story you care about, in the way you want to do it, odds are no one but your mother is going to like it.

I agree.

[Jamesaritchie]

I do think Writer's Digest is a very valuable magazine, and there's a ton of information in it that's useful for beginners and seasoned pros alike. But there is also a lot of information aimed at selling copies of the magazine, rather than at real world writing. If you lack enough experience to tell one sort of information from the other, you can get in trouble.

When you read an article in WD, look at who wrote it, why they wrote, and check out how well what they say worked for them out in the real world.

In one sense, you do have to write for the market. If you want to write a romance novel, you do have to know the tropes, and you probably need to know that an HEA ending is most often required.

And in any genre, you have to know what's been done to death.

I agree with Gillhoughly about writing for trends. By the time you learn how to write well in a given trend, odds are that trend will already be dead and gone.

But there is a phenomena called "coattailing," and if you can already write well and fast, it is possible to take advantage of it. It's not something I'd want to do, but many writers have made it work.

Coattailing is when a novel hits it big on a topic or trend that wasn't around before, or when a new novel brings a dormant genre to life. If that novel stays popular long enough, there is time for some other writers to jump on the bandwagon. Da Vinci Code, for example, has had several novels coattail it.

Coattail novels seldom hit as big as the original, but they can land pretty far up the bestseller list, and can get a writer started.

And whenever a novel is big enough to bring a dormant genre to life, there usually is time enough for quite a few writers to jump on that bandwagon, which is usually what kills the genre again.

One thing I can say with near certainly is that even two or three or four or five years from now, romance novels and mysteries are still going to be very popular, and will still be the two largest segments of the market. What no one can say is which sub-genre of romance or mystery will be the ones most sought, and this is the problem with trying to write to trends.

Mysteries are still extremely popular, but male-oriented hardboiled novels with a tough guy protagonist are a very tough sell.

But I think the real problem of trying to jump on a bandwagon, catching a coattail, or following a trend has little to do with what may or may not be selling two or three years from now. The real problem is trying to write a quality novel in an area you don't love to read and write.

Most writers do their best work when they're writing the kind of novel they most love to read. It usually takes some very wide reading, and quite a bit of writing experience to be able to write well in multiple genres, or on topics that never interested you deeply. For new writers, trying to write to a trend, or to a market, probably won't work for a lot of reasons, but maybe the main reason is because they've haven't yet learned to write a publishable novel in their favorite genre/area, and writing one outside of this is far tougher.

[Tallymark]

My situation is sort of similar to this...I'm primarily a fantasy writer, and I've got a couple of fantasy novels on the backburner that I'm truly, wildly passionate about. But they're the odd, deep, meaningful monster epic masterpiece kind--the kind that an unpublished author could have a lot of trouble selling (especially since it looks like it's going to be a trilogy). I'm also working out some plot issues right now, and so even though I WILL write them someday, I'm seriously considering working instead right now on an idea I had for a paranormal romance.

I'm excited about the romance one too, just not quite in the same way I'm excited about my fantasy babies--I'd planned to write it someday, but was going to write it *after* the uber-epics. But the romance is a more, well, marketable story--in the sense that it would all fit in one book, and that book would probably be around 70,000-80,000 words, which is a more likely length for a new author to get published at. And I think it might be entertaining to a broader audience. So even though I really want to work on my fantasy stories, my thought is that if I tap into my passion for the romance story first, then when I get around to doing the fantasy novels I'll be more likely to get them published. If I 'write to the market' a little bit for my first book or two, I could be more likely to get my more unorthodox stories published later than if I did them first as a no-name unpublished author. I'm not writing purely to be sellable--the romance idea is one I'm passionate about too. And I'm not planning on changing the story itself just to please the public. But I'm reordering my list-of-books to write based on what I think would work best for an unpublished author.

Does that make any sense? Should I just go with the flow and write whatever I want the most first, even if it's a sprawling six-book fantasy? Or should I still write what I want, but try and look out for my best interests too? (considering my net income this year is going to be negative, it'd be nice to put effort into something that could pay off within the next five years). plus, since I've never even finished a book before, would it be better as a learning experience to do something that, y'know, I could actually finish in a year?

[James D. Macdonald]

Passion.

Next question?

[sfecphory]

Passion. The market will take care of itself. If you spend your time writing to market, you'll end up writing based on a formula. If you're going to do that you might as well just fill out a mad-lib.

[TeddyG]

To use a quote: "Above all else to thine own self be true."

I could change my work (my style, my philosophy...) to meet someone else's expectations of what a writer should write, but I'd be stabbing myself in the heart to do it. If I never get published, at least I can look at myself in the mirror everyday without cringing. :D

I agree..the only thing I dont agree with is that no matter what I do, when I look at myself in the mirror I cringe. :D

[RG570]

If I had the skill for it, market. Passion will get me nowhere. Nobody buys what I like to write. Writing is a lot better than jobs that involve shovels or retail. I don't care what I'd have to write. I would do anything not to have to work for someone else.

But since I don't have the skill for it, I doubt I'll try writing outside my non existent genre any time soon.

[Euan H.]

Always and ever write what turns you on, never write for a trend.
On the other hand, I know someone who read on an agent's blog that a certain genre was 'hot'. She sat down and wrote a novel in that genre (a very good novel), and it sold in a decent three book deal.

So there y'go. Make of that what you will . . .

[pdr]

Write for yourself. Edit for the reader.

[janetbellinger]

My only problem with writing for the market is boredom. I can't write well when I'm bored.

[James D. Macdonald]

The readers can always tell when you're bored.

[aghast]

art means nothing if it doesnt come from the heart but what is art if noone sees it? its not either or - you dont have to sacrifice for your passion for commercial but you dont have to suffer for your art either

[Jamesaritchie]

On the other hand, I know someone who read on an agent's blog that a certain genre was 'hot'. She sat down and wrote a novel in that genre (a very good novel), and it sold in a decent three book deal.

So there y'go. Make of that what you will . . .

I make of it that she was an extraordinary writer, and that not one in a thousand can do this. Exceptions make the rule, but you don't say whether this was a genre the writer already had an interest in, may have read a thousand novels in, etc.

The story is seldom as simple as it seems with blurbs.

And there are some very few writers who can write anything, and write it well. Trouble comes when a thousand writers who can't do this think they can because someone else managed to do it.

[Jamesaritchie]

Passion is best because it means you're probably writing in an area you know something about, and you're probably having more fun, but I can write as well when I'm bored as when I'm passionate. The reader hasn't a clue whether I'm passionate or bored. . .unless he's standing behind me watching me yawn as I actually write.

There are many very good writers who claim to hate writing. Every phase of it. There are many other good writers who claim writing bores them to tears.

There are many other good writers who simply write whatever they're assigned to write, and who do it very, very well, regardless of how they feel about the story.

I know a good sentence when I read one, or when I write one, and passion has nothing to do with it. I know how real people react to given situations, and how the feel about this and that, and personal passion for the story has nothing to do with it.

For me, writing is far more an intellectual exercise than an emotional one. It's reading that needs to arouse emotion, not writing.

And the more prolific a writer is, the less realistic it is to think he's passionate about everything he writes, good, bad, or indifferent. I just haven't seen any evidence at all that being passionate means better writing.

In fact, there are a great many writers who let passion stop them form being successful writers. They're so passionate about the story they're writing, or the story they've written, that they can't step back and see it isn't very good. If passion meant good writing, there would be so many bad novels out there, and if lack of passion meant bad writing, there have been an awful lot of writers throughout history who were lying about what they felt when writing.

I think passion means you'll write in an area you're more familiar with, and it means sitting at the keyboard will be more fun, but it sure as heck isn't necessary for good writing.

[PeeDee]

I don't undertand wanting to write for a market, even if no one wants to read what you write. Good God, if I were writing without passion, I might as well go do something I have more interest in. The fact tht I can't think of an example right now is a sign that my head's filled up with stories.

I don't write for the market (I suppose I'm capable) and I wouldn't care to try. The closest I'll do is, if someone asks me for something specific, I'll write it. I think that's more logrolling than anything.

[John61480]

Well, one market you can't write for money in is Horror. You definately need some passion in this genre.

I chose to write my first send out novel horror because that is what was on my mind at the time and what came most natural to me. I don't think I could write for the Thriller market because I don't know enough of what goes into a Thriller novel. I simply haven't read enough of that genre to know how to start.

So, I think writing for a any market is plausible. Writing for money is what makes the world go round. I mean, be honest, if there was no paycheck in writing, would you continue? And be even more honest, if that were the case, is your ego big enough to play popularity contests? C'mon, why aren't you writing the next big gay/lesbian erotic novel then?

[PeeDee]

So, I think writing for a any market is plausible. Writing for money is what makes the world go round. I mean, be honest, if there was no paycheck in writing, would you continue? And be even more honest, if that were the case, is your ego big enough to play popularity contests? C'mon, why aren't you writing the next big gay/lesbian erotic novel then?

I'd already been writing for a number of years before it consciously occured to me that there were people out there, in the world (possibly with the word "chump" on their forehead) who would actually pay for this stuff. I wrote stuff where there was no possibility of a sale, and I kept writing it because I was enjoying myself and other people were enjoying reading it.

Yeah, I think you can write to a market (bonus points if your passion is there too) but I don't think you can write to a trend. I could write an epic fantasy novel if I wanted and aim it at a market, for example, as opposed to writing a Bill Gibson cyberpunk novel.

[ChaosTitan]

There are many very good writers who claim to hate writing. Every phase of it. There are many other good writers who claim writing bores them to tears.


:Wha: Then why the frell are they writing? :Wha:

[PeeDee]

:Wha: Then why the frell are they writing? :Wha:

It's like guys who grumble about being married, or girls who grumble about going fishing all day with the guys. It's just grumbling. They really love it. Deep down.

[Penguin Queen]

To a certain extent, it depends on what you write.
But on the whole, I'd go with passion.

I realise that your question is about fiction; I write both non-fiction & fiction, & in my journalist incarnation, I do sometimes accept commissions on soimething that might not necessarily turn me on... but it has to be something I'm interested in. If I accept it purely because it's a 'sexy' topic despite the fact that I have no interest in it whatsoever, I will have a miserable time writing it & the listeners will have a miserable time listening to it. And the commissioning editor will go elsewhere next time.

WIth fiction... I spent three years (on and off) writing a bunch of odd short stories, purely because I felt like it. Well, yanno. Because they grabbed me and woudlnt let me go, & writing them was definitely a thing of passion.
I never really thought about who woudl read them. They were the sort of stuff I would have liked to read.
They have now been accepted for publication as a collection. :)
So... yeah. Passion.

I met a novelist once who'd written a novel loosely based on the life of Sylvia Plath. Her heroine, not unsurprisingly, was a poet.
She found an agent & the agnet found a publisher, but the publisher thought the book was too serious as it was, & said they'd take it but only if teh heroine was changed from a poet to a model.
The writer agreed to this in the end & the book was published & she got a deal to write a second one, which was good.
But when I met her, her third novel had just been published & she was still unhappy about the first one, and felt in retrospect that she shoudlnt have agreed to that change.

[Sophie]

Several years ago I sent Timothy Dalton, the English actor, what amounted to a query letter about a novel I had written but couldn't sell. He was filming in the U.S. at the time, and I sent the letter, with sample chapters, to the studio. I wrote to him to tell him that the male protagonist in my novel was based on his characterization of Edmund Rochester in a British TV production of "Jane Eyre."

He wrote back and apologized for not being in a position to do anything about my novel. However, I had also sent, being young and maybe foolish, a complete report of all the rejections from the publishing world and implored, without putting it into words, "What do I do now?"

His answer was, "Write from the heart," implying, don't get bogged down on what will sell. I can't quote anymore from the letter without going back through old files. However, that sentence has stayed with me through the years.

I believe all of us who write (and cringe under the sarcasm of being called "wannabe writers" who are basically losers without knowing it), want to be published. Yes, we put words down that fascinate, thrill, energize us. We have something to say and want to say it. But wouldn't it be great to have someone else read what we have to say? And wouldn't it be nice for that someone to be a professional editor attached to a commercial publisher (providing lots of readers)? On the other hand, a literary agent agreeing to sell what we write would be almost as good.

Really, writing, whether from the heart and/or to the market, is almost all about being read. I say almost because of the immense satisfaction I get from writing that no one can take away from me. Then comes the tough part of trying to sell.

Timothy Dalton notwithstanding, that novel I wrote has never been published. But I still rewrite it when I have time off from doing other writing. It's my first novel, and I can't bear to give it up altogether.

[URL="http://judyg.hostcentric.com"

[Sophie]

Several years ago I sent Timothy Dalton, the English actor, what amounted to a query letter about a novel I had written but couldn't sell. He was filming in the U.S. at the time, and I sent the letter, with sample chapters, to the studio. I wrote to him to tell him that the male protagonist in my novel was based on his characterization of Edmund Rochester in a British TV production of "Jane Eyre."

He wrote back and apologized for not being in a position to do anything about my novel. However, I had also sent, being young and maybe foolish, a complete report of all the rejections from the publishing world and implored, without putting it into words, "What do I do now?"

His answer was, "Write from the heart," implying, don't get bogged down on what will sell. I can't quote anymore from the letter without going back through old files. However, that sentence has stayed with me through the years.

I believe all of us who write (and cringe under the sarcasm of being called "wannabe writers" who are basically losers without knowing it,), want to be published. Yes, we put words down that fascinate, thrill, energize us. We have something to say and want to say it. But wouldn't it be great to have someone else read what we have to say? And wouldn't it be nice for that someone to be a professional editor attached to a commercial publisher (providing lots of readers)? On the other hand, a literary agent agreeing to sell what we write would be almost as good.

Really, writing, whether from the heart and/or to the market, is almost all about being read. I say almost because of the immense satisfaction I get from writing that no one can take away from me. Then comes the tough part of trying to sell.

Timothy Dalton notwithstanding, that novel I wrote has never been published. But I still rewrite it when I have time from doing other writing. It's my first novel, and I can't bear to give it up altogether.

[URL="http://judyg.hostcentric.com"]U[/RL]

[zornhau]

But when I met her, her third novel had just been published & she was still unhappy about the first one, and felt in retrospect that she shoudlnt have agreed to that change.

But I bet she was enjoying her angst at a comfortable distance from cubicle hell.

[cattywampus]

I don't see how anyone ever gets through a whole novel without passion for the subject. But, for instance, if you have a passion for writing fairy tales for children, that's writing to the market, isn't it? I'm not talking about passing fads here, like the "Left Behind" series (pandering to wishful thinking), but genres.

[stormie]

Write with passion first. An agent or editor will sense that. BUT they're out to sell books. They know where the market is heading. Right now I'm in a rewrite because I've been asked to, so that it will become what will sell.

Funny thing is, I used to think, "I'm not going to do that. No way. Never. I won't. The industry won't destroy my passion!" Well, they don't destroy the passion, they give suggestions on how to make it more appealing and saleable to the public. And since writing is my career, as well as my passion, I do the rewrites.

[blacbird]

They know where the market is heading.

You betcha.

caw.

[Angelus]

Stephen King said to a fan that he didn't care if she took his book and wore it as a hat in The Kentucky Derby. You bought the book. Do what you want, I don't care. I agree with King. Why should I have to justify myself everytime someone buys a book of mine? They paid money, got the product. Move on.

[cattywampus]

Stormie, you have the right idea. Some while back I read (in some writing magazine or on the net) the number of writers who put their noses in the air when asked to do rewrites, and it was incredibly high. Don't remember the actual number, but it would amaze you.

[BiggerBoat]

I think that the best chance for being published comes at the intersection of passion and marketability. Things like a high-concept idea, a clear and marketable genre, will (hopefully) help you get past the query stage. But you'll need passion for the subject and your characters to sustain reader interest.

At least, that's my theory.

[veinglory]

Something to that effect. Do other writers really change their story, or what they write, in order to sell a book?

Some do, I have. Why not? People's goals differ. One of mine is to make immediate bill-paying money.

[aghast]

keep writing and improving your skills, no point of wriitng to trend becase they change and publishing is a long process but you know what if you keep writing, when the trend catches on and your topic and genre becomes hot, you have an 'instant' best-seller on your hand, ready to be published - but only if youre good so trends pass but talent and skills and passion stay

[cattywampus]

Wait until your topic becomes hot? Are you serious? Many writers will die before their subject becomes hot, if it ever does!

To writers who ask me how to make their novels or non-fiction books stand out above the competition, and how to add depth and scope to their writing, I answer this way:

You must have a good - excellent reason to write a book, and a real passion for the subject to carry you through. Writing a book is a long and lonely task. My favorite writing teacher in college used to say, "You want to write a book? OK. Pick a medium sized book on any subject, and type it into your computer, first word to last word. If you can do that you can possibly write a book of your own."

To fully succeed (not only sell, but be proud of what you wrote), you need what James Frey calls a "premise." A premise is what you want the reader to know/to become convinced/be reminded of, something to engage them, to think about and remember long after they put the book down. It is not a subject ("Jealousy," The Democratic Party," etc.) but a conviction you hold - what your life experiences have taught you about the subject. A lesson, in other words. You must be PASSIONATELY involved with the lesson to carry you through to the end. Premeses answser such questions as: "Sure, jealousy is harmful, but how? And how harmful?" and "Do rich people deserve the money they have?"

PASSION + PREMISE + ENDURANCE = a worthy book.

[janetbellinger]

My yardstick is whether or not, upon rereading it a few months or years later, I feel a surge of gladness in my heart. If I do, I know I wrote both from passion and with knowledge. Whether or not either of these will translate into market is yet to be seen.

[angeebee]

So here I am looking over my latest Writer's Digest, and for the first time I've found something really helpful in writing. It's talking about putting an outline together, and character profile and what not. However, when I started looking over past issues, I found a consistent article or topic. Something along the lines of:

How to Write for "X" Market that is Really Selling.

Something to that effect. Do other writers really change their story, or what they write, in order to sell a book?

I haven't sold a book yet, and I may never. I write in a more neo-noir love story style, and I realize that it's something that will probably get me next to John Grisham. But that's my style, that's my passion. I can't see a writer changing their style, just so they can get a novel sold.

Does anyone else feel this way? Or, has someone changed their style and got it sold, so then their next novel they could write how they wanted? Maybe I fancy myself too much of an artist, or bohemian, or something like that. Am I missing it?

Hi

Is this your first novel?

First novels tend to deal with our own issues, and they're immensely valuable because they're therapeutic for the writer.

If you're writing your first novel, I wouldn't worry about selling it until it's done. It's an immense achievement to FINISH a novel. Most people can't do it, so you deserve kudos when you finish.

You'll know when you're ready to go commercial. That's when all the tips and hints for writing to a market will make sense to you, and even better, you'll see books in a particular genre that you KNOW you can write - and write better too.

However, with a first novel, because it's such a huge undertaking, just finish it. Every word you write changes you.

Good luck with your novel - break open the champagne when you write "The End."

Cheers

Angela

[RJLeahy]

In questions like these, I tend to quote Samuel Johnson:

"No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money." :)

[bsolah]

I totally disagree with people who write for money. If you want to get rich, writing should be at the bottom of your list. Only a minute portion of writers ever make a substantial income from their craft.

Also, if you write for any other reason besides enjoying it, then your apt to not do it very well.

[aghast]

yup although some artists, writers and performers make milliions, most dont so if you want to strike it rich these are the worst professions to get into - you definitely will make more money waiting tables so it leaves what, passion? if you want to make gobs of money get into business and real estate and plastic surgery

[bsolah]

if you want to make gobs of money get into business and real estate and plastic surgery

...or be born into the Gates or Murdoch families.

[RJLeahy]

If you're not published, then who is going to read you? If you're not writing to be read, then why are you writing? Doing something for your own sense of pleasure and passion isn't called writing--it's called masturbation.

[Scarlett_156]

I have sold books written by other people just by talking or writing about them (the books, not the people). I don't know if this works for me selling my own books, because I've never tried. (Karma..? I am after all quite evil.)

[SeanDSchaffer]

So here I am looking over my latest Writer's Digest, and for the first time I've found something really helpful in writing. It's talking about putting an outline together, and character profile and what not. However, when I started looking over past issues, I found a consistent article or topic. Something along the lines of:

How to Write for "X" Market that is Really Selling.

Something to that effect. Do other writers really change their story, or what they write, in order to sell a book?

I haven't sold a book yet, and I may never. I write in a more neo-noir love story style, and I realize that it's something that will probably get me next to John Grisham. But that's my style, that's my passion. I can't see a writer changing their style, just so they can get a novel sold.

Does anyone else feel this way? Or, has someone changed their style and got it sold, so then their next novel they could write how they wanted? Maybe I fancy myself too much of an artist, or bohemian, or something like that. Am I missing it?


I believe I've heard it mentioned on other threads: don't write for the market, because the market is always changing. I'm told that your average book takes somewhere between two to three years to get onto shelves, from the time it is accepted by a publsihing house. In that amount of time, the market will have changed substantially.

Just write what you want to write, and try to find the right editor or agent to represent the work.

[writeroffthelake]

Market vs Passion? Instead of choosing one or the other, do both. Try working on more than one piece at a time - one being something you are passionate to write whether it ever sells or not, and one being for a market you like, enjoy, and feel that you can write for.

If you feel that you can't write more than one piece at a time (and I suspect you can - maybe even a dozen pieces at one time), then finish a short piece and let it set while you write another short piece...then after a month when you've got maybe half a dozen, start rewriting one while you begin writing a new piece.

Keep in mind that if you're doing research on one piece, actively checking markets for a second piece, outlining to write a third, writing a fourth, rewriting a fifth, etc, etc, you won't have to worry about whether one manuscript is not marketable.

Shoe stores don't sell only one style of shoes. Supermarkets don't sell only one type of soup. You're a writer. While you will probably never have the multitude of products available in any store, unless you want to be as (un)busy as a livery stable since the automobile became the preferred mode of family travel, you better learn to write more than one thing, one way, for only one reader (i.e. yourself).

That, of course, is if you want to publish. If you just write for the pleasure of it and don't care about publishing, then just do what you want. You only have to care about your readers if you have readers.

[johnnysannie]

IMHO

If there's no passion, there's not likely to be a market.

[PeeDee]

If you're not published, then who is going to read you? If you're not writing to be read, then why are you writing? Doing something for your own sense of pleasure and passion isn't called writing--it's called masturbation.

Yes, but you're not writing for money then. What you're talking about in THIS post is completely seperate from what you talked about in your previous post (when you were talking about writing, in fact, for money).

This is writing for an audience, and there's nothing at all wrong with that. I do that all the time. I love to write for an audience, whether it's right in front of me, or it's waiting, or it's an audience that I've constructed in my head to get me through a difficult chapter.

I write my stuff with the intention of getting paid for it, I don't plan to do much else with what I write, but that is a far and away different animal than actually writing for money.

If you took what money you're likely to make off your first novel and you broke it down to an hourly wage, I suspect you'll find that you'd be better off, financially, if you'd instead found a nice sweatship somewhere and mended shoes for a living.

It is insurmountably cool to make money off your writing for all sorts of reasons. For one thing, it says "Someone likes what I wrote enough to give me money for it."

BUt if what you write is written not with truth and not with passion, but is instead written with the Almighty Buck flashing away in your brain, then that will show through.

Writing for an audience is far and away different than writing for money, both of which are wildly different for writing for yourself, which is also a pretty far cry away from mastrubating.

Less creepy, for one thing.