Borrowing From Yourself

TheIT · Nov 5, 2006

When you write, do you find yourself always pulling from the same bag of tricks?

Sometimes when I'm working on something new, I'll see ways to use something I've written before. Usually it's a snatch of dialogue or description, or a scene which might fit better in a new place. When I go to type it in, I hit two reactions. At first I'm excited because something's finally coming together, then I think wait, I've already used this idea, I have to save it for the other piece.

The thing is, I'm unpublished. The other piece hasn't been finished yet. Why should I save an idea for use in a nebulous other project which still needs lots of work when I can use it now? When I go back to the other project, my writing skills will have improved so I'll probably come up with something better, but I still feel odd borrowing from myself.

Does anyone else feel this way? Do you save the idea or use it now?

ChaosTitan · Nov 5, 2006

From one unpublished writer to another, I don't see a problem with reusing certain things. There are descriptions or metaphors that I have used more than once, mostly because it really encompasses what it's describing. If it works, use it.

I've noticed that some pubbed authors are fond of things. King likes to use "shambling" to describe how characters (or creatures) move.

Nickie · Nov 5, 2006

Lots of famous authors do this. Just have a look at Danielle Steel's novels - seems like they have been 'knitted' by the same pattern.

Personally, I try to avoid this. I don't think a reader would appreciate (I certainly don't) looking at the same dialogue (or whatever) when reading the second (third, ..) book of an author.

Sure, some things will always be the same. My heroines are always women with a mind of their own and intelligence, who know what they want and how to get it. But each heroine also has characteristics of her own, which makes her unique. The reader won't say: 'Hey, this Sarah is just the same as Marguérite or Justine." Also the story lines are different each time.

Nickie

MikeAngel · Nov 5, 2006

If you're writing a series of novels, it's best to avoid this. Otherwise, for short stories or various novels, I don't see why not.

TheIT · Nov 5, 2006

Clarification to my original post: if I choose to reuse something in my current writing, I intend to remove or change how I used it originally. I'm not suggesting making each novel a clone of the same thing.

Willowmound · Nov 5, 2006

I often reuse the good-bits from discarded projects. These are always just nuggets -- bit of description, a simile, snippet of dialogue. I find that whole scenes, however good on their own, never fit other things. Trying to make stuff fit always ends in disaster.

Neeli · Nov 5, 2006

I remember reading an interview of John Updike in which he said he finds himself writing the same things--and sometimes he's not sure if he's written something before or not.

I think a lot of authors get stuck in a rut, using the same phrases, solutions to problems, etc. But retrofitting something that's not already in use? I'd say go for it.

kikazaru · Nov 5, 2006

My feeling is that writers are like other artists - whether it's painting, or music or some other artistic endeavour, I think that there is a bit of a compulsion to explore the same vein of thought, or similar character trait, or dialogue - the same way a painter goes thru a "blue" phase or musician has signiture riffs. Writing words means that though you have an on going internal dialogue with your characters, it is after all still "you" doing the thinking and "you" playing puppet master with the characters. I think that it's only natural that you find yourself repeating some phrases or situations, and to keep doing so - at least until you feel you've fully explored it usefulness.

wrinkles · Nov 5, 2006

I think I know what TheIt is saying. I, too, am unpublished. I’m working on a novel and have two or three others in line, waiting to be written. I have a bunch of ideas for each of them, most written down, some not. I’m about halfway finished with the first draft of the first novel and when I first started I found myself tempted to include ideas, observations, characters, plot lines, settings, etc., that were reserved for the novels-in-waiting, but I would resist the temptation.

But after reading so much on these threads about the difficulty (nay, damn near impossibility) of a first novel being published, I made a conscious decision to go ahead and use every single good idea I have accumulated over the years. So I am stripping the future novels of all the good stuff and using it now.

My thinking is that the most important consideration is to get published. If I have nothing left for future novels, so be it. Being a one-hit author is better than being no author at all. But there is also the hope that by the time I start writing number two, new inspiration will emerge to replace what I have stolen.

johnzakour · Nov 5, 2006

I've borrowed from myself on occasion.

My second novel written was actually my first one sold. So I took material from the unsold first book and added it too the second book just incase I never sold a second book. When I sold a second book I replaced the material I borrowed from the first book with new material.

glutton · Nov 6, 2006

Nickie said:
My heroines are always women with a mind of their own and intelligence, who know what they want and how to get it. But each heroine also has characteristics of her own, which makes her unique. The reader won't say: 'Hey, this Sarah is just the same as Marguérite or Justine." Also the story lines are different each time.

Nickie

My heroines have different personalities, motivations, and backgrounds, but they are always uber warriors who can withstand a ton of damage. *shrugs*

janetbellinger · Nov 6, 2006

I make a conscious effort to avoid doing that and I am on the lookout for it when I edit.

TheIT said:
When you write, do you find yourself always pulling from the same bag of tricks?

Sometimes when I'm working on something new, I'll see ways to use something I've written before. Usually it's a snatch of dialogue or description, or a scene which might fit better in a new place. When I go to type it in, I hit two reactions. At first I'm excited because something's finally coming together, then I think wait, I've already used this idea, I have to save it for the other piece.

The thing is, I'm unpublished. The other piece hasn't been finished yet. Why should I save an idea for use in a nebulous other project which still needs lots of work when I can use it now? When I go back to the other project, my writing skills will have improved so I'll probably come up with something better, but I still feel odd borrowing from myself.

Does anyone else feel this way? Do you save the idea or use it now?

johnzakour · Nov 6, 2006

I don't think there is anything wrong with borrowing from yourself as long as you don't repeat yourself.

My trick now is keeping myself from repeating myself as with middle age I sometimes have trouble remembering what I wrote 5 years ago.

RedWombat · Nov 6, 2006

I'm all for it.

It's like pegs. If I have a hole in the story, I reach into my brain and grope around for a peg that fits, or which can be made to fit with a little whittling.

I may have been trying to find a spot for this particular peg for years. It's a delight then, when I finally locate the hole where it fits.

Sometimes I don't have a peg, and I have to go make one, and that's fine. Them's the breaks. But I'd never reject a great peg that fits that hole perfectly merely because it was originally a character/setting/premise/scrap of dialog that I invented ten years earlier and never found a home for.

I think that sort of thing is great, and helps me realize that none of my various projects is ever really wasted. In some incarnation or other, most of them ultimately prove useful, even if it's just as creative mulch.

popmuze · Nov 6, 2006

I've gone way beyond this, myself. In my latest WIP I deliberately excerpt one of my favorite scenes from a novel I had published 25 years ago, presenting it as the WIP of my main character. Of course, I improved it a bit from the published source (which is long out of print).

I figure, if this book ever gets published, for the two or three people who own the other book, it'll be like an inside joke.

Of course, if the book gets published and is a monster success, causing everything I've ever written to be brought back into print, many more people might discover this joke.

If that leads to some sort of controversy over the practice, articles in the press, discussions over the Internet, well, that's a chance I'll have to take. (Unless my agent or editor advises me to remove it before publication).

Tracy · Nov 6, 2006

I know what you mean - a line or a phrase or a situation which you absolutely love, and you don't want to cannabalise the original work leaving it with nothing, for the new work.

I used to worry about that, and then I decided to trust my subconcious to come up with new and better things for the original book/story when I went back to it, to replace what I had taken from it. And it always did work out.

I agree with those who say not to use the same stuff over and over, it's a cop-out. Exploring similar themes, for sure - re-using dialogue or phrases and so on, is, IMO, not on. (Reusing a make-up work like 'shambling' is different, it's only one word).

So use everything you've got on this project, and trust and KNOW that you'll come up with other good stuff when you need it.

sfecphory · Nov 6, 2006

I agree with Tracy. Use anything and everything that comes out of your pen and clear up any duplications later--or don't. I'm a big fan of Philip K. Dick, and the reality is that if you've read one of his novels you've read most of them... he constantly reused his own themes and descriptions of characters (someone once wrote an essay on his affection for "dark haired women" in many of his books). And Chekhov had so many characters either fainting or talking of fainting that it became something of a joke: http://www.33faintingspells.org/namesake.html

glutton · Nov 6, 2006

sfecphory said:
(someone once wrote an essay on his affection for "dark haired women" in many of his books).

Heh, I've had heroines of every hair color, but I certainly have a thing for wild, flowing manes!

johnzakour · Nov 6, 2006

I can't really talk about hair color affection as the titles of my books are: The Plutonium Blonde, The Doomsday Brunette, The RadioActive Redhead, The Frost Haired Vixen and the Flaxen Femme Fatale. (And two still to be determined hair colors.)

Southern_girl29 · Nov 6, 2006

I have two or three characters in my short stories and in one novel that all have whiskey brown eyes. I love that descriptive phrase, but that's about the only one I've used.

popmuze · Nov 6, 2006

johnzakour said:
I can't really talk about hair color affection as the titles of my books are: The Plutonium Blonde, The Doomsday Brunette, The RadioActive Redhead, The Frost Haired Vixen and the Flaxen Femme Fatale. (And two still to be determined hair colors.)

How about "The Bald Medusa." Or is that already used somewhere else.

johnzakour · Nov 6, 2006

I had Bald, Bionic and Bodacious, but it got shot down. I've been told to avoid Bald when talking about women.

zarch · Nov 6, 2006

Yeah, I borrow from myself quite a bit. There are phrases, character descriptions, scenes, whatever that I think are funny/effective. I am unpublished and feel that worrying "well what if the first manuscript where I used the phrase 'she grabbed a serving platter from the cabinet and hurled that sumbitch through the window' gets published? Then what'll I do?" is pretty silly...somehow I think I'll manage.

glutton · Nov 6, 2006

Another thing I am fond doing is impaling my heroines. :Shrug:

Every major female warrior character I've written has been deeply stabbed in the torso at least once, though there are differences in the details of the incidents (whether it was with a sword or spear etc.; from the front or the back; through the belly, the side, or the chest; how many objects impaled them; the way they react to being wounded, etc). Of course, they tend to live, and usually even remain conscious and keep fighting in spite of their massive injuries. And yes, I'm crazy. :flag:

Willowmound · Nov 6, 2006

popmuze said:
I've gone way beyond this, myself. In my latest WIP I deliberately excerpt one of my favorite scenes from a novel I had published 25 years ago, presenting it as the WIP of my main character. Of course, I improved it a bit from the published source (which is long out of print). ...

I absolutely love that! That is so post-modern.

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