Random Chapters

PenelopePitstop · Nov 5, 2006

So I'm writing a sci fi novel...

However, I haven't been writing the chapters in sequence, just as they come to me - hoping they'll all fit together at some point :Shrug:

Trouble is... now I'm just totally lost with it!

There's no structure, and I'm not even sure there is a story anymore (even tho I know there is a story, a great one - but I've managed to confuse even my own imagination).

Any advice would be much appreicated!!

citymouse · Nov 5, 2006

PP, while I don't write randomly I do get whole scenes in my head that demand setting down. When that happens I create a folder I call [ IDEA] interleave. You may find it helpful to do the same. Just file these different scene/chapters in separate files that have a title that indicates what the contain. You may want to include a short intro paragraph to jog your memory. With your WIP this will mean extra work but it may just keep you from going nuts. I know I'd be lost sometimes if I didn't.

Good luck

James D. Macdonald · Nov 5, 2006

Take file cards. Put a synopsis of each scene (or chapter, or whatever) on those cards. Arrange the cards in some kind of order.

Ardellis · Nov 5, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Take file cards. Put a synopsis of each scene (or chapter, or whatever) on those cards. Arrange the cards in some kind of order.

I tried that at one point, and it was great until I got a laptop and started dragging it around with me so I could write during breaks at work. I started forgetting to bring the cards along, or I'd drop them and have to reorder them twice a week.

Eventually I gave up and started a Word file instead: each scene gets a paragraph. I mark the chapter breaks and put notes in brackets between scenes that need as-yet-unwritten material between them. It serves as a living outline that I can rearrange as needed. Same principle; different implementation.

johnzakour · Nov 5, 2006

Sounds like you need to take a step back, take a deep breath and figure out where your story is headed. I can't even begin to begin thinking about writing until I have the story flow click in my mind (or more recently on paper).

I start with a basic rough outline (about ten pages) and just use Word to cut and paste things around until it all flows nice. Then I write it with the outline as my general guide.

For me the mentally figuring out where the story is going to go is a much slower process then actually writing the book, but once it's done the book then flows quite quickly. (Usually about a month to get the ten pages of "story flow". Then three-four months to turn those into a 400 page novel. Then there’s the editing…)

I'm in the thinking stage now with my next two books, hence the reason I'm spending more time on this board than normal.

It's possible the random chapter thing can work for you but I certainly couldn't make it work for me. (I don't have nearly enough talent to pull that off -- ask my agent.)

Experiment, find something that works for you and then write away.

Jz

Misty_Blue · Nov 5, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Take file cards. Put a synopsis of each scene (or chapter, or whatever) on those cards. Arrange the cards in some kind of order.

I like this idea! I'm going to give a try today, thank you James! I seem to have a similar problem of getting lost, though im trying to go through the chapters in sequence not randomly. But my main worry at the moment is mostly about pace, am I heading too fast with the story, too slow, going off track, too much conflict, too little conflict, not enough detail, too much detail... and on and on... sigh, someone hand me a pill.. :rant:

PeeDee · Nov 5, 2006

If you're writing random chapters, but you dont' have a clear idea of the story...then that's your problem: you don't have a clear idea of the story yet.

From the get-go of an idea, I can come up with scenes and snippets, whole chapters...but I don't usually write them until I understand my story at least well enough to say "This is what happens."

Perhaps you need to sit on what you've written for awhile. Look at it as notes (for now; they'll turn into chapters in a bit). Let everything stew in your brain, your chapters, your ideas, everything, and give it alittle while until you have both a story and a busting enthusiasm to write it.

(the file card idea isn't too shabby either; if nothing else, it can be fun.)

ChaosTitan · Nov 5, 2006

It's also possible that instead of a novel, you have a bunch of interconnected short stories.

jpserra · Nov 5, 2006

PenelopePitstop said:
So I'm writing a sci fi novel... now I'm just totally lost with it... Any advice would be much appreicated!!

I write chapters out of order, sometimes. Nice thing about chapters is sometimes they fit in several places. Bad thing is the same.

The immanent Sage, JDM suggests this

James D. Macdonald said:
Take file cards. Put a synopsis of each scene (or chapter, or whatever) on those cards. Arrange the cards in some kind of order.

I use cards; taping them up on the back of my office door. I then transfer the order to an index, wherein I tally completion status and a running total of word count for each chapter to control pace. You might try this, since you can fill in empty chapters with dummy lines and write to fill as you go.

You need to have a total concept of your story. I began one of my mms on a single chapter. Once I developed the story, the chapter was superfluous. Develop your story and character and move ahead with the writing.

John Serra

johnzakour · Nov 5, 2006

Actually, if you like file card idea but are too lazy to use paper (like me) you can use the storyboard mode in Pages (on a Mac) and index card mode in Final Draft to simulate index cards. I find the electronic ones way more easy to deal with.

Simon Woodhouse · Nov 5, 2006

PenelopePitstop said:
So I'm writing a sci fi novel...

However, I haven't been writing the chapters in sequence, just as they come to me - hoping they'll all fit together at some point

Trouble is... now I'm just totally lost with it!

There's no structure, and I'm not even sure there is a story anymore (even tho I know there is a story, a great one - but I've managed to confuse even my own imagination).

Any advice would be much appreicated!!

If I tried to write chapters out of sequence I'd end up in the same state as you. I often rely on the end of the previous chapter to set the tone in the next one. Or more often than not, if the new chapter denotes a POV shift, I have to go back to the last chapter that featured the same character POV and see what their state of mind was when I left them. If I was writing randomly I'd really be in trouble.

The only thing I do that's sort of random is write snippets of conversations that have no relevance to anything I'm working on, but sound good. These scribbles then sit around for weeks/months/years, until one day I'll be writing something and realise I've already got a conversation that'll sort of fit.

Bufty · Nov 5, 2006

I can't for the life of me imagine writing random Chapters without knowing their sequence or how they fit in to the story line.

MikeAngel · Nov 5, 2006

Look at it this way: if your story was a cross-country trip and each day you got in your Jeep and headed randomly to random places, would you ever have a final destination? Would you get lost, stuck, confused and ruin a good trip? Probably, which is why, when most people want to drive somewhere, they have an idea about where they're going and what route they'll be taking. Your problem lies in the method itself.

When you were a kid, did you get to eat dessert first?

AnnieColleen · Nov 5, 2006

PenelopePitstop said:
So I'm writing a sci fi novel...

However, I haven't been writing the chapters in sequence, just as they come to me - hoping they'll all fit together at some point

I do this, with scenes as well as chapters. For me it works as 'writing to explore'. If I just try to sit down and plot out a story, I either get stuck or it comes out sounding cliched or melodramatic, whereas by putting words on paper and seeing where it goes, I find all sorts of neat snippets I can follow up on. (The other strategy that works for me is to find someone to bounce ideas off of/argue with, but I don't have anyone local to use for that one. Research helps too, but that's its own can of worms!)

As far as re-focusing when it's gone on for a while: what's worked recently is writing a query letter. My novel's nowhere near ready to submit, but getting the story into a couple of paragraphs -- and even having a specific audience in mind -- gave me some good ideas to follow up as far as the structure, main characters, resolution, etc.

Of course it's not finished yet, so I'll have to get back to you on how well that ultimately works!

PenelopePitstop · Nov 6, 2006

MikeAngel said:
Look at it this way: if your story was a cross-country trip and each day you got in your Jeep and headed randomly to random places, would you ever have a final destination? Would you get lost, stuck, confused and ruin a good trip? Probably, which is why, when most people want to drive somewhere, they have an idea about where they're going and what route they'll be taking. Your problem lies in the method itself.

When you were a kid, did you get to eat dessert first?

I don't like dessert

However, I have packed my bags and bought a one-way plane ticket to Rome with absolutely no idea where I was going or staying or doing... then spent an absolutely amazing month exploring Italy.

Thanks everyone for the great responses

johnzakour · Nov 6, 2006

Yes, a trip to Rome can be random and spontaneous and still be a lot of fun; but the thing is you're not taking a trip to Rome you're writing a SF novel. In keeping with the analogy, that means you're actually the travel planner not the traveler. Can you imagine how your customers would react if you planned a trip to Rome for them by saying, "just go wherever you want and do whatever you want..." You customers would say, "what the heck are we paying you for then?"

If you are writing a sf book that you hope / plan on selling to other people (first publishers -- yes they are people and then readers) you need to have at least a basic plan and structure. (Unless you have a ton of talent, in which case, wow you're luckily, because I certainly don't have nearly that kind of talent.)

Writing novels is a job (a fun job but a job nevertheless) it should be treated that way.

janetbellinger · Nov 6, 2006

That's a tough one. I wrote my first draft that way too, and I ended up tearing my hair out cutting and pasting everything into order. I will never write another book that way. With my second book, I wrote out an outline first and then followed it while I wrote the novel. That way, I stayed in time sequence.

ChaosTitan · Nov 6, 2006

janetbellinger said:
That's a tough one. I wrote my first draft that way too, and I ended up tearing my hair out cutting and pasting everything into order. I will never write another book that way.

*hugs janet*

That does seem like the difficult way to write. Writing scenes and chapters out of order means that they lack consistent flow and natural progression. Sure, once the chapters are cut/pasted into the correct order, you can go back and tweak them to add flow, but wow. That seems like a lot of extra work....

Carrie in PA · Nov 6, 2006

chaostitan said:
*hugs janet*

That does seem like the difficult way to write. Writing scenes and chapters out of order means that they lack consistent flow and natural progression. Sure, once the chapters are cut/pasted into the correct order, you can go back and tweak them to add flow, but wow. That seems like a lot of extra work....

If you don't mind, Chaos, I'm just going to follow you around and *ditto* you today.

ChaosTitan · Nov 6, 2006

Carrie in PA said:
If you don't mind, Chaos, I'm just going to follow you around and *ditto* you today.

No problem, Carrie. It's fun to have a groupie. :ROFL:

zornhau · Nov 6, 2006

Ardellis said:
I tried that at one point, and it was great until I got a laptop and started dragging it around with me so I could write during breaks at work. I started forgetting to bring the cards along, or I'd drop them and have to reorder them twice a week.

Eventually I gave up and started a Word file instead: each scene gets a paragraph. I mark the chapter breaks and put notes in brackets between scenes that need as-yet-unwritten material between them. It serves as a living outline that I can rearrange as needed. Same principle; different implementation.

Word Outline View!

Dump your little paragraphs into the built in headings (Heading 1, 2...) and delete them when you're done.

Misty_Blue · Nov 6, 2006

I tried the little index card thing, but not on the book i'm trying to write, but on a book ive just read, so i can organise my book similarly. Seems to be working so far, maybe give it a try.

sfecphory · Nov 6, 2006

Note cards with synopsis of each section is a very good tool, and there are even some programs which mirror this sort of 'notecard' arrangement, allowing you to move sections around (Writer's Blocks is one). I prefer the real-world method, and have even gone so far as to print out all my writing and then tape pages together. I can lay it out over the floor and move entire pages at once. It's kind of hard if you don't have the space, but it's a great hands-on method to get into your writing; you can see right away if one scene is four times longer than the next, if chapter 2 is way too long, and if your climax is unfortunately short (no pun intended, I swear).

jpserra · Nov 6, 2006

I've also tried writing a short sysnopsis of the chapter as a chapter header and insterting for reference. This is a quick way. I went to the cards because of the potential for reorganization. It's quicker to shuffle them than in the document.

John Serra

PenelopePitstop · Nov 16, 2006

So... I was up half the night (watched Torchwood before bedtime - never a good idea and I was so scared by the evil fairies I couldn't sleep).

Anyways - I think I got things back on track whilst laying awake (mentally anyway)... should really write it all down on the cards... thanks for that idea will defo use it.

I did do a spider chart - which is the closest my brain can come to a straight line thought - which helped too.

Looking forward to getting back to it this weekend (if I'm not too hungover that is

)

Random Chapters

fantasy dweller

Your Genial Uncle

tortures make-believe people

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Where's my tea, please...?

Around

Recovering Gumshoe

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Where have the last ten years gone?

Invisible Writer

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Around

Write All The Words!

Around

Swordsman

Recovering Gumshoe