Add or subtract

The Lady · Oct 31, 2006

I'm a bit confused at the moment when I redraft, whether to add in or take out. Myself, when I go back to look at my first draft, I often find it reads kinda sparse and rough. I find I need to add loads more to make it flow. Admittedly there are also places that need to be chopped.

Problem is, I've almost finished Stephen King's On Writing and he says that first draft less 10 % is the formula.

I've been trying to apply the formula and it's just not working. Now, following his advice and trying real hard to shed things, I am discovering lots of things I'd never have dreamed of cutting can actually just be mercilessly chopped, but I'm still coming across those rough sparse passages that need to be smoothed. There's no way I'm able to stick to his formula.

So, knowing all writers are different, I'm just wondering how it goes for everybody here, do you add or do you take away as you rewrite?

aghast · Oct 31, 2006

it depends, theres no formula - in kings case he seems to be a overwriter so for him editing is triming excess and streamline his plot etc but if you find yourself underwriting then its not a bad idea to add more, but i am sure you can still trim the fact and excess and i am sure there are those in every first draft

Allynegirl · Oct 31, 2006

That is what works for King ... and he says so, if I am not mistaken. You have to figure out what works for you.

I too am an underwriter. I get the barebones in and then start adding flesh and subplots and depth.

PeeDee · Oct 31, 2006

One of the writers on these 'yere forums told me to cut out a certain percentage of one of my short stories (it was preyer who told me this). He gave me my current word count and then gave me another word count to aim for.

I did, and I was happy about it. Like Steve King, I'm a natural putter-inner instead of a taker-outter.

ORION · Oct 31, 2006

My first drafts run around 50,000 - 60,000 words. Each edit I usually take out 5000 and add 10,000. My manuscripts range from 75,000-95,000.
In my first draft I do a lot of narrative that I change to scene/ action/dialog.
Writers all do it differently. When something is not working for you it is helpful to hear how others do it for inspiration or validation.
JMHO

aadams73 · Oct 31, 2006

Both. I'm an underwriter so some things need to be fleshed out, while others get mercilessly chopped. The end result is always somewhere between 75-80K.

Simon Woodhouse · Oct 31, 2006

I've found that on the second draft (and all subsequent re-writes afterward), the plot tends to become simpler and the character relationships more complex. I think I can see why this is. During the first draft I'm following the plot I've outlined, and more or less making the characters do what's expected of them. By the second draft I'm a lot more familiar with the characters, and so can see some of the things they're supposed to do aren't actually what they would do if left to their own devices. Also, by the second draft I've a better understanding of their likes/dislikes etc, and this changes the way they interact with other characters.

I've found my characters are a bit like real people – they take a while to get to know properly.

Shadow_Ferret · Oct 31, 2006

It depends on you and it depends on the work. My first novel swells at an impressive 195,000 words. It will need much trimming. My current WIP, when I finished the first draft, was a measley 59,000 words. I'm now up to 67,000 with an aim of 70,000. A little pruning was involved with a lot of adding.

PeeDee · Oct 31, 2006

Simon Woodhouse said:
I've found that on the second draft (and all subsequent re-writes afterward), the plot tends to become simpler and the character relationships more complex. I think I can see why this is. During the first draft I'm following the plot I've outlined, and more or less making the characters do what's expected of them. By the second draft I'm a lot more familiar with the characters, and so can see some of the things they're supposed to do aren't actually what they would do if left to their own devices. Also, by the second draft I've a better understanding of their likes/dislikes etc, and this changes the way they interact with other characters.

What a really interesting and fascinating way to look at it. I really like that.

Carrie in PA · Oct 31, 2006

Do both. If you feel you have to add, then go back through and add until everything you say is written down. Then go back through and take out what the story doesn't need.

And then figure out what will work for you. When I read how-to books, I just pick and choose what I know will work for me, or things I might like to try. The rest I just skip over.

Melanie Nilles · Oct 31, 2006

it varies

For me it depends on the story. Some require hacking, some filling in; but most require some combination of both. What that is depends on the story. On one, the story was so vivid in my mind that I turned out 78,000 words in six weeks. After a few months, that grew to over 83,000 because one of the characters (it had all been written from one POV) demanded his side be told in brief glimpses. Those added scenes added a new dimension.

In another, my epic fantasy, I have taken it slow, so I tend to fill in a lot of the narrative. Editing on that mostly involves taking things out. I tried King's method after reading On Writing, and it worked for one story, but none of the others.

So, I'd have to so that what works for the story depends on your style of writing on that particular story. It's not consistent for me.

Melanie

greglondon · Oct 31, 2006

First rule of thumb: Cut from the front. Add to the end.

Cut the prologue, cut the set up, cut the fluff at the beginning.

Add to the denoument, bring the reader gently down from the climax, let them smoke a cigarette (or the metaphorical equivalent), before you send them out of your world and into the real world.

MyFirstMystery · Oct 31, 2006

I usually subtract about 10%, but add in about 5%, for a small negative change.

MFM

KiwiChick · Oct 31, 2006

I think I tend to cut a few more entire scenes than I add, but within a scene I'm definitely an adder. My first draft tends to be really sparse in terms of description.

I'm with the person above who said to cut from the front and add to the end. Part 1 of my WIP is about 40k words. When I'm done editing I'm hoping to get it down to about 10k, if I don't remove it entirely. As for the current end, "abrupt" is definitely the word I'd use.

KiwiChick

Bartholomew · Oct 31, 2006

Add for rewrites.

Subtract for edits.

expatbrat · Oct 31, 2006

I am currently on the first edit of my first novel. I am cutting a large number of scenes that are fun but do not add to the overall story. I am also finding lots of tell that I am changing to show and changing sections to dialogue.

By the end of this draft the word count will be down by 30-40%.

TrainofThought · Oct 31, 2006

I need to add since much of my WIP lacks description. During rewrites, I use description where needed, not to fill pages, and find other angles to the story. As for subtracting, I’m learning less is more since my sentences tend to be a bit wordy, so I condense them.

I am enjoying Stephen King’s audio of On Writing even though I never read any of his books. He seems real to me. That’s off subject but I wanted to throw it in.

Linda Adams · Nov 1, 2006

Both, actually. I tend to write a little towards sparse because I used to be a short story writer, so I usually run either close to the word count or a little short. The first draft of our manuscript ran 108K. We pruned it down to 90K. Then we did a major revision, and fixes of the story setup caused it to lose 100 unnecessary pages that had been shoring it up. We ended up at 75K, and are now going over it to find places to bring the word count up. At the same time, some things are being edited out because they're repetitious, they aren't needed, left over from the old verison, etc.

aadams73 · Nov 1, 2006

Imelda said:
On Writing, I thought, was rubbish. He touted his formula as the ONLY one, and that's never true.

I thought he was quite clear about different writers doing what works for them. Maybe you skipped over those bits.

The Lady · Nov 1, 2006

A big thank you to everyone who's answered. It has helped to see there's many different ways to do this writing business. Looking at the poll results, the "adds" have beaten the "subtracts" but the real clear winers are the "it changes so much" group.Thanks for all the specific advice too. I like that term underwriter. That's what I am, it appears.

Just edited a big piece of work for a crit mate last night. It was fascinating given this discussion here, She was a definite overwriter. It's all coming together for me. Another vital something learned.

That, cut from the front, add to the end, really makes sense too. Thanks again.

SeanDSchaffer · Nov 1, 2006

I usually add. I like to write the basic work out in the First Draft, and in later ones write in the added details and similar stuff.

John61480 · Nov 1, 2006

I think I'm one of those under writers. A lot of my writing tends to be sparse and to the point. At first it can seem appealing at times, but then when it adds up, the story in the novel begins to appear like skipping stones in water. Sure, it gets to where it is going, but it just *hops* over so damn much.

My fear is that if I begin adding stuff, that is the same stuff I'm later going to have to cut because it is nothing but fluff. And if that is the case and I have to think up a supe extraordinary amount of material to fill in that is interesting or is relevant to the plot...well, honestly, I don't know if I'm capable of that.

seun · Nov 1, 2006

greglondon said:
First rule of thumb: Cut from the front. Add to the end.

Cut the prologue, cut the set up, cut the fluff at the beginning.

Add to the denoument, bring the reader gently down from the climax, let them smoke a cigarette (or the metaphorical equivalent), before you send them out of your world and into the real world.

This exactly what I have to do. My starts are all over the place with far too much backstory. My ends can feel a little rushed.

Like the ciggy idea, by the way

scarletpeaches · Nov 1, 2006

Okay, okay, let's cut to the chase.

Take out all the crap.
Put more good stuff in.

greglondon · Nov 1, 2006

Like the ciggy idea, by the way

Yeah, baby. That's what I"m talkin' about.

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