Progressive statives

One thought, not as a grammarian, is that the first example would be used in the subjective sense, that the speaker is talking about himself loving his experiences during this particular holiday, while the second example is a statement in general about how he feels about the holiday (which, in some contexts, might also include the speaker's current experience).

That's kind of a clunky explanation; someone else can probably do a better job of it.

ac

I'm really loving this holiday.

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I hate this! It's the same as the McDonald's commercial "I'm loving it". I might have been walking around with my head in a sack, but I haven't heard this sort of phraseology (for which I'm not clever enough to know the correct term) so much until the last couple of years. To me, it sounds unnecessary. There's nothing wrong with "I love it."

So they say it in Britain, too, now? Sad. (I left in 2000.)

Worth noting that anybody who writes a screenplay will cure himself of using progressive verb tenses in no time, except when required. Any reader who knows what he's doing will smack your knuckles for sentences like Jack is sitting in the car.

C'mon, maybe you'll get rich and/or meet a movie star.

Maryn, who'd enjoy the former

i love this holiday is simply a statement but i am loving this holiday is an expression of an emotion as alleycat mentioned - i am loving it is a proclamation plus it also tells us that the person saying it is still on the holiday and still loving it and will still be loving it the next time you ask him

Is this incorrect in your variant?

"Are you wanting tea, or coffee ...?"

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I'd say "Would you like tea or coffee?" I'm afraid "are you wanting..." sounds impolite to these middle-aged ears.

And aghast: flaming heck don't you think a little punctuation and the odd capital letter makes your comment easier to read quite frankly my dear i am aghast that a writer would write in such a manner it is quite quite difficult to read sorry but that is how i feel

pash said:

Sorry? What are you referring to?

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Sorry, Pash. The last part of my post was regarding "aghast's" lack of punctuation and caps. I guess I should have quoted the post to make it clearer! My apologies.

The "are you wanting tea or coffee" is Irish English, and it's got the underlying verb pattern of Irish -- I've heard this sort of sentence from native speakers of Irish and Welsh (both of which use this kind of sentence) as well as from those who are only English speakers but in Wales or Ireland.

You'll also see the "will you be wanting . . ." and "Is it coffee or tea you want . . ."

I do wonder if it isn't an example of the VSO pattern asserting itself in the dialect.

I am loving this holiday is interesting to an American because I suspect "holiday" here is being used where we would use "vacation."

One might say "I am loving this holiday/vacation" during the holiday, as a statement about an action that occurs in the present but is continued (the holiday isn't yet over . . .)

*I'm really loving this holiday* vs. *I really love this holiday.*

*Are you wanting tea or coffee?* vs. *Do you want tea or coffee?*

Well, there are subtle differences between the progressive and nonprogressive forms.

In the "holiday" example, the implication is that the speaker is emphasizing the continuous nature of the experience. He acknowledges that the holiday is currently still taking place. However, it is not necessary to use the progressive.

In the "coffee/tea" example, the progressive is a bit odd, but could be used if there has been some kind of confusion about the request for tea/coffee, and now the person pins it down with a question in the progressive (which acknowledges that the subject is already in play and being discussed). Again, though, you do not have to use the progressive.

These are very fine distinctions that make sense to a native speaker who is very conscious of language.

Pash, I'm not a linguist so can't answer you on that basis. I am, however, a native English speaker (of American English). I do not believe that one form is correct while the other is not. There are several reasons to choose one over the other.

1) One of your examples is a poem or song. Use of the present participle form (ending in -ing) makes a difference in the meter, so a poet or lyricist would choose it if an additional syllable or a shift in meter is required. It could also be chosen for stylistic reasons in prose.

2) In all of the cases you've given (I believe, I may have missed one or two that are formal), the use of the "progressive stative" is colloquial rather than formal. It is perfectly correct in spoken English and in informal written English. It would probably be less correct, however, in formal writing (government documents, academic papers, letters to someone you would address formally). The example in your last post falls into this category. "You're telling me!" is a colloquial expression that was frequently used by American speakers of English (although it's beginning to sound a bit dated and it may be regional).

3) The "progressive stative" indicates something that is currently happening and will continue to happen for an indefinite period in the future. This does make it subtly different than the simple present tense of the verb which carries no indication of the action continuing into the future.

I hope this clarifies a bit. The question of "wrong" or "right" doesn't really apply, in my opinion (which is NOT that of a linguist or grammarian, but of an editor); the question of more or less correct in a given context is what's important.

pash said:

Is this incorrect in your variant?

"Are you wanting tea, or coffee ...?"

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I'd call it incorrect.

Without knowing the technical basis for my reason, I'd say this construction sounds "foreign" - the sort of thing one would say if English weren't one's first language.

The original example -- "I'm really loving this holiday" -- I think is just in vogue right now (as also evidenced by the McDonald's "I'm Lovin' It" example Sandi mentioned earlier).

"I'm enjoying this holiday," however, is correct.

Medievalist knows her stuff, and she's excellent about sharing her knowledge.

I told you what I know from my own experience, which is as an American. Perhaps my unilateral answer is a result of not being a linguist, and neglecting to acknowledge that I don't know all variants.

You asked for reasons for choosing one over the other. I gave my answer; you questioned the extent of my knowledge. I'll not trouble you any more.