Fooling with history (mythology)

sfecphory · Oct 27, 2006

Hey all,

I've been working on a novel which is a retelling of a story from Greek mythology. My problem is this: I'm finding that to tell the story I want to tell I'm going to have to rearrange quite a few of the details of the original myth. Something that happens at the "end" of the myth must happen at the beginning in order for my novel to work as it's been written.

My question: would this be off-putting to anyone who might be familiar with mythology? For instance, if you were a fan of "The Wizard of Oz", and then you picked up "Wicked" and discovered that things had been rearranged for the story, would you be upset? Or, do you see it as apples and oranges?

Thanks,
sf

odalisk · Oct 27, 2006

Depends on how clever it is. I'll excuse a lot of things for the sake of cleverness.

Neil Gaiman has a retelling of Snow White that is like that. I enjoy things that make me take a different look at something I thought I knew.

Besides, I take my mythology with a grain of salt.

wordmonkey · Oct 27, 2006

The point of a myth is not to tell a story. Jason and the Argonauts, for example, is just an adventure story. Niobe weeping by the river isn't about a sad chick. Adonis falling in love with his reflection isn't just about a vain guy. Most myths are more like Aesops fables. What they're about isn't the story.

So if you wanna change the details, you can do that.

I liked what the TV series Quantum Leap did with history. Most of the stories were small and personal, but occasionally they would have a big story that dealt with real history. The history of the Quantum Leap universe was not ours. It was similar, but subtly different. The Marilyn Monroe episode springs to mind. Sam had to go in and make things the way they should be, and if you knew the real story, the way they should be was how they happened in our history. But in the show's history they had happened differently. I don't know that I explained that very well.

Did that help at all? 'Cos frankly now I'm confused.

Higgins · Oct 27, 2006

You version is as valid as any other

sfecphory said:
Hey all,

I've been working on a novel which is a retelling of a story from Greek mythology. My problem is this: I'm finding that to tell the story I want to tell I'm going to have to rearrange quite a few of the details of the original myth. Something that happens at the "end" of the myth must happen at the beginning in order for my novel to work as it's been written.

My question: would this be off-putting to anyone who might be familiar with mythology? For instance, if you were a fan of "The Wizard of Oz", and then you picked up "Wicked" and discovered that things had been rearranged for the story, would you be upset? Or, do you see it as apples and oranges?

Thanks,
sf

You might want to check up on how Claude Levi-Strauss worked on myths of an idea of what might be involved. Basically, as long has you have some idea what's involved in your myths (eg. why Poisiden provides a salty spring and Athena gives an olive tree to a site on the Acropolois in Athens...in myth) and why things have the attributes they have, why symbols cluster as they do around certain things and sites and events and topoi...you can do anything you want, after all most myths occur in many different versions and in many cases mythological beings that are supposedly "the same" (eg. Minerva and Athena) are only the same for some purposes in the context of all the re-writing and new versions that occurred long ago.

sfecphory · Oct 27, 2006

odalisk, wordmonkey, and sokal,
Thanks to each of you for your thoughts. Your responses are encouraging and reassuring.
Best,
SF
ps-wordmonkey, I think your confusion was very illuminating, thanks.

ChaosTitan · Oct 27, 2006

Chances are you'll offend someone. But that can be said of almost any book in print.

Don't worry about that until ARC's are on their way to reviewers.

LeeFlower · Oct 27, 2006

Knowing the myth really well and deciding to make educated changes for the sake of telling a good story is fine.

The thing to worry about is changing things by accident because you're relying on bad information or not doing research, but that doesn't sound like what you're doing here. I think you should be alright.

roach · Oct 27, 2006

Keep in mind that many myths have differing versions depending on who is doing the telling.

joymark · Oct 27, 2006

Changing a traditional story never stops Disney. They even change historical facts to fit their story if it suits their needs.

I can't see why changing mythology would be a problem, especially if it is artfully done.

PeeDee · Oct 27, 2006

joymark said:
Changing a traditional story never stops Disney. They even change historical facts to fit their story if it suits their needs.

Story wise, they murdered "The Little Mermaid."

ChaosTitan · Oct 28, 2006

PeeDee said:
Story wise, they murdered "The Little Mermaid."

Amen, brother!

I remember mentioning that off-handed to my younger cousin. He looked at me like I was crazy when I said that the mermaid died (and that her name really wasn't Ariel). :e2hammer:

There is, however, a very lovely animated cartoon version of TLM that keeps closely to the original story, self-sacrificing ending and all. Came out in the early 1980's, I think.

PeeDee · Oct 28, 2006

I remember telling people "You realize that all her sisters shaved their hair off in sacrifice to Ursula for Arial -- who is not Arial -- and then she died anyway. Right? RIGHT?"

People: "That's so sad. You're making that up, Disney wouldn't write that."

Pete: They didn't. It's a Russian folk tale, much older than Disney.

People: No it isn't.

Pete: *stomps angrily to the hills*

PeeDee · Oct 28, 2006

Jadezuki said:
Disney murdered mythology, too, literally. Remember Hercules?

Edit - oh, and history. Pocahontas.

And the Little Mermaid, and the Hunchback of Notre Damne, and Robin Hood and King Arthur and Aladdin, and.....

(although Aladdin happens to be one of my favoritest Disney movies and I can sing every word to all the songs.....but still.......)

scarletpeaches · Oct 28, 2006

I prefer The Simpsons.

"See my vest, see my vest, see my veeeeeeeeee-eeeeeeeest!"

PeeDee · Oct 28, 2006

Jadezuki said:
And Snow White and Cinderella and Hamlet and... but I was going for, specifically, history(ish) and mythology.

Those were all historical stories.

.....weren't they....?

DeadlyAccurate · Oct 28, 2006

LeeFlower said:
Knowing the myth really well and deciding to make educated changes for the sake of telling a good story is fine.

The thing to worry about is changing things by accident because you're relying on bad information or not doing research, but that doesn't sound like what you're doing here. I think you should be alright.

I just wanted to reiterate this (or in Internet vernacular, QFT). When you know what you're talking about and make changes, it's more easily accepted by readers than if you don't know and are just making it up as you go along.

Birol · Oct 28, 2006

PeeDee said:
And the Little Mermaid, and the Hunchback of Notre Damne, and Robin Hood and King Arthur and Aladdin, and.....

(although Aladdin happens to be one of my favoritest Disney movies and I can sing every word to all the songs.....but still.......)

And Mulan.

PeeDee · Oct 28, 2006

Jadezuki said:
Yes! Of course they were. I was just feeding Bambi's great-great-great grandson, and I'm sure he agrees.

*pat pat*

I mean, it had better be true, or else there had better be a good explanation for why my toaster goes on adventures from time to time.

Damn straight! Otherwise, my cats need to stop singing.

(Aristocats, if no one remembers... ...)

I'm off to get into my car. That would be Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, for those of you who were wondering.

Alan Yee · Oct 28, 2006

Birol said:
And Mulan.

True. But it was an entertaining movie with awesome music to go along with it. Being Chinese, I looked and found the original poem, "The Ode (or Ballad) of Mulan." It was a lot less entertaining. I wrote a Mulan-type short story awhile ago, and I'm thinking I should do more research to rewrite it and make it more original.

jpserra · Oct 28, 2006

Challenging events

I'm writing a story on...[can't tell you], that brings into suspicion that [can't say] and am worried that liable might come into play because I challenged the reputation of [sorry, can't give it away]. This is a tough call, and I am in conference with attornies over this very problem as we speak.

Who knows who might bring litigation if you come up with even something ficticious that bounces around common beliefs. Just look at Dan Brown!

JPS

Atlantis · Oct 28, 2006

chaostitan said:
Amen, brother!

I remember mentioning that off-handed to my younger cousin. He looked at me like I was crazy when I said that the mermaid died (and that her name really wasn't Ariel).

There is, however, a very lovely animated cartoon version of TLM that keeps closely to the original story, self-sacrificing ending and all. Came out in the early 1980's, I think.

I think the Little Mermaid is a beautiful flim. People are so quick to judge disney for sugar coating things. Do you honestly think they would do a children's animated flim where the main character dies? and what does it really matter if they changed her name? I think Ariel is a gorgeous name.

Atlantis · Oct 28, 2006

sfecphory said:
Hey all,

I've been working on a novel which is a retelling of a story from Greek mythology. My problem is this: I'm finding that to tell the story I want to tell I'm going to have to rearrange quite a few of the details of the original myth. Something that happens at the "end" of the myth must happen at the beginning in order for my novel to work as it's been written.

My question: would this be off-putting to anyone who might be familiar with mythology? For instance, if you were a fan of "The Wizard of Oz", and then you picked up "Wicked" and discovered that things had been rearranged for the story, would you be upset? Or, do you see it as apples and oranges?

Thanks,
sf

Go nuts. I'm writing a book with characters from Greek Mythologly and I've completely gone to town with them. Ares works as a bartender, Hermes founded FedEx and now owns several computer companies, Aprhodite owns a hair salon for gods, etc. If you want to rewrite the myths, then do it. I like to think of my book as a "Where are the now?" speical on the Gods showing how they adapt to the modern world centuries after people stop believing in them. It gives me great freedom to have fun with them. There are so many different versions of the Greek Myths, I doubt it would really matter if you change a few things around in the beginning of your book. Its your novel, write it how you please.

janetbellinger · Oct 28, 2006

If it's myths you're working on, I don't see why you can't change them. It's not as though you're changing something that actually happened.

Shadow_Ferret · Oct 28, 2006

Personally, I'm a stickler for details and the facts. If someone writes a story and they change certain details of actual events or legends or myths, I get upset and stop reading.

icerose · Oct 28, 2006

I wouldn't change anything major, like Zeus as the head God and such. Their placement and such should remain in the familiar domain or you are going to have a lot of pissed off readers. I have seen like 6 variations of greek mythology, some I like better than others but they keep to the core of it. Perhaps you can tell us what you are messing with and we'll be able to give you a better idea of whether or not we think it will work according to our own expectations of that mythology.

Fooling with history (mythology)

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