What is good writing?

Sesselja · Oct 17, 2006

This question was raised a few times in the DB-hate club, but it sort of drowned in the DB arguments.

What is good writing? Is it the way one uses language? Is it how one tells a story? Is is both? Can good writing be one, but not the other?

Shadow_Ferret · Oct 17, 2006

I'd like to hear a definitive answer to that. But I seriously doubt there is an answer. It's like asking What is good music? or What is good art?

It's all subjective and determined by each individual.

Sesselja · Oct 17, 2006

Shadow_Ferret said:
I'd like to hear a definitive answer to that.

I didn't mean to imply there is such a thing as a definitive answer, but it would be interesting to hear what other people thing of as good writing. Especially as it seems to be used as an argument for/against writers/books that are being discussed.

Let me start then. I see good writing as something different from good storytelling. It's a bit like how I see Robbie Williams as an entertainer (translates: good storyteller) rather than an artist (translates good writer). Dan Brown would fall in the Robbie Williams category for me (although witout the sexy/charming stage personaof RW).

For me, good writing has to do with how the writer masters the language and the craft. It is writing that either is so seamless you hardly notice the language, it just flows of the pages, or it is language so fresh it makes me curl my toes in delight. It is writing devoid of stereotypes and cliches, and with natural sounding dialogues and settings and characters I believe in. If the writing is good, I can enjoy books that 'have no story' (according to some readers of actionpacked stories).

Now: rip me to pieces.

CaroGirl · Oct 17, 2006

Sesselja said:
For me, good writing has to do with how the writer masters the language and the craft. It is writing that either is so seamless you hardly notice the language, it just flows of the pages, or it is language so fresh it makes me curl my toes in delight. It is writing devoid of stereotypes and cliches, and with natural sounding dialogues and settings and characters I believe in. If the writing is good, I can enjoy books that 'have no story' (according to some readers of actionpacked stories).

I agree with your assessment, but would like to add to it. For me, good writing has something *new*. I mean, they're called novels for a reason, right?

If a writer finds a unique voice, a new way to say something, a new twist to a tale, and puts it all together well, that, to me, is great writing (especially those works that manage to do all that in one book).

RJLeahy · Oct 17, 2006

In some ways it's like asking, what is beautiful? We may agree on some elements, but it's a question simply loaded with personal bias.

Neeli · Oct 17, 2006

What makes something smell good? What makes something smell bad?

There are scientists who have narrowed down to certain chemical compounds that, as a rule stink, and ones that generally smell good. But you don't need to know that to make an assessment: You know it when you smell it.

Likewise, you could study the acknowledged great writers--that is a good place to start--analyze them and make objective notes about what they do: sentence structure and variation, word choice, tone, pace, acceleration, etc. This will help you with your writing, to be sure, but it could never be the standard by which great writing is judged. People love even stories that are not well-written because they do other things well: plot, characterization, settings... The point is, you know a good book when you read it.

Marlowe · Oct 17, 2006

It's writing that doesn't get in the way of the story. Great writing is writing that actually improves the story, I think.

veinglory · Oct 17, 2006

Good writing is writing I enjoy reading. That isn't any one thing.

maestrowork · Oct 17, 2006

To me, good writing is that which achieves or goes beyond achieving its intended purpose, be it to entertain, enchant, enthrall, enrich, or educate.

Everything else are just tools, techniques, craft to achieve these goals.

Some tell stories. Some tell truths. Some tell both. Some thrill us. Some move us. Some make us want to get out and do something. Some put us in a fascinating new world. Some remind us what love is all about. Or life. Or death. Or happiness. Or sadness. Or Goodness. Or evil.

Great writing stays with us for a long, long time.

allenparker · Oct 17, 2006

All Y'all Got IT!

I think there is a difference between good storytelling and good writing.

Good story telling is the ability to tell a story in a manner that compells the audience to stay until the end. This may or may not include smooth transitions to plot points, subtle use of language, or the entangling of subplots that richly fill the story.

Good writing is good story telling that uses the tools of communication to spark the emotions, create vivid illusions, and instill graphic images of the author's story.

The author must labor to create a work of art that instills an emotional response that fulfills an audience's need, whether the need is no more than a chuckle on the way to work, or as deep as patching a tear in one's heart strings.

Or maybe good writing is simply whatever the audience is willing to read.

Higgins · Oct 17, 2006

Good writing aims at effects

Sesselja said:
This question was raised a few times in the DB-hate club, but it sort of drowned in the DB arguments.

What is good writing? Is it the way one uses language? Is it how one tells a story? Is is both? Can good writing be one, but not the other?

Good writing is writing in the service of a coherent structure of effects. These "effects" are rather like "special effects" in the mind of the reader.
However, I would specify that the effects aimed at should have a coherent scheme to them whereby the writer guides the reader to something relatively intense and significant.

By this measure of coherence and total effect, the later books of Jane Austen and George Eliot at her best, are pretty good examples of what I mean....just to toss out a few. I believe there are really far more good writers out there than people usually think.

Diviner · Oct 17, 2006

Sesselja said:
good writing has to do with how the writer masters the language and the craft. It is writing that either is so seamless you hardly notice the language, it just flows of the pages, or it is language so fresh it makes me curl my toes in delight. It is writing devoid of stereotypes and cliches, and with natural sounding dialogues and settings and characters I believe in.

Yes to the above. Good writing is clear, vivid and fresh. It makes you think and feel. It makes you want to keep reading.

Great writing does all the above but is innovative as well, exploring things not previously explored or exploring in ways never used before that grow to seem "right" after a time. Great writing tells a story that may have been told before in a way that makes it seem like the first time it has ever been told.

Good writing is crafted; great writing is all that as well as inspired.

Allie · Oct 17, 2006

Good writing is one thing, writing that can be published is another. I would say that all published works are probably good writing to someone. But there is plenty of good writing wasting away in drawers. What's the difference? I don't know. If I did, I'd probably be published already.

Sesselja · Oct 17, 2006

RJLeahy said:
In some ways it's like asking, what is beautiful? We may agree on some elements, but it's a question simply loaded with personal bias.

Of course. But that doesn't mean we cannot discuss and talk about it, does it? We are not looking for the correct answers here. After all, this is a discussion forum, not 3rd grade where the teacher holds the one and only right answer.

If you hope to do some good writing, surely you must have an idea, vague or not, what that means to you? Or maybe I'm assuming too much. Perhaps you don't care whether your writing is good or not, as long as you write.

Sesselja · Oct 17, 2006

Neeli said:
People love even stories that are not well-written because they do other things well: plot, characterization, settings... The point is, you know a good book when you read it.

People do a lot of things. People rape, murder, and torture too.

I don't really care what people do, I am more interested in the individual. This individual, me, doesn't enjoy a story that's not well written. I can appreciate aspects of a book, such as the way the writer creates a vivid setting or the spectacular imagination with witch s/he's crafted the story - but if the writing is rubbish, I won't enjoy it. It will annoy me to the point where I can no longer submerge myself into the story, but will be standing on the sideline, picking at the scabs of bad prose or awkward sentences.

But if talking about good writing is so hard, what about bad writing? Is there anything that will make you go, uh-oh, this is just not worth my time?

RedMolly · Oct 17, 2006

Good writing: something that will make me stop and go back over a sentence just for the pure joy of rereading a well-turned phrase.

Or conversely, the realization that I've been galloping through the last x-many pages in a delighted rush to see what's happening next, coupled with the well-meaning desire to go back through the book later and read it more slowly so I can soak up the language again.

Bad writing: " 'I know,' she smiled, flicking back an auburn-colored curl of hair."

John61480 · Oct 17, 2006

What RedMolly described.

That is exactly how it is (for me as well, anyway).

aadams73 · Oct 17, 2006

Good writing is when I'm no longer conscious of the words on the pages because I'm so caught up in the story.

expatbrat · Oct 17, 2006

Great thread Sesselja.

Good writing (to me) is writing that does not interfere with the story. Writing that absorbs me into a different time, place, culture, socieo-economic status, social setting, environment enabling me to have an out-of-body-mind-journey into places I’d otherwise never get to explore.

The words are a means to the experience, the words themselves are not what brings me joy, I get joy from the string of words and where they take me.

Perhaps we all read with different goals in mind? I read to mind travel - I'm a travel addict and reading is another outlet for this. Perhaps others read to feel the words in their mind, to enjoy the texture and timbre of words for the sake of the words themselves? Perhaps we read different things for different things like we listen to different music to set different moods?

JBI · Oct 17, 2006

Writing that makes sense, and makes you feel satisfied and at the same time longing for more. I know that is a paradox, but it's true.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 18, 2006

Good writing

For me, good writing is sompletely independent of story and character. It's words and sentences and paragraphs you would enjoy reading, even if there were no story and no characters. It sings, it hits you with unexpected twists and turns. It's all about language and new ways of saying old thing.

Great writing goes a step further. Great writing is a contradiction. . .it's both ever-present and completely invisible. It sings silently, filling the back of your mind, hums in your subconscious, but never, ever gets in the way of story and character.

Story and character obviously outweigh good writing for publishing purposes, but for story and character to last, to be read for pleasure generatons later, a novel really needs good story, good characters, and good, if not great, writing.

But defining it? I'd say the best way to do this is to read the writers that have withstood the test of time.

There is no such thing as writing that will please everyone, just as there is no such thing as a food that everyone likes. But when writing withstands the test of time, when it still sings to most of those who read it long after the writer has died, then it's good or great.

Carrie in PA · Oct 18, 2006

aadams73 said:
Good writing is when I'm no longer conscious of the words on the pages because I'm so caught up in the story.

Ditto that!

Del · Oct 18, 2006

I don't think sustaining the test of time is an indication of good writing, but good story. Writing has changed so much, even in the past few decades. It will change again.

Good writing is a personal evaluation. My mother recommended her favorite author to me and when I read one of his books I was left with a disgust on my face and the question; why does she like this putz.

Many of these post say explicitly how I feel. I could only reiterate. Though, I might ad, there are no good writers, only good writing. I have often read two books by a single author, enjoying one and despising the other.

HorrorWriter · Oct 18, 2006

In the immortal words of Miss Snark, "Good writing trumps all!" With that you need to have a great story. Good prose is nothing with a boring story and vice versa. It's a heavenly combination! :e2writer:

blacbird · Oct 18, 2006

Something other people do.

caw.

What is good writing?

Sesselja

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

Sesselja

CaroGirl

Living the dream

RJLeahy

Neeli

The Khatun

Marlowe

Duck of Death

veinglory

volitare nequeo

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

allenparker

Naked Futon Guy

Higgins

Diviner

Allie

Sesselja

Sesselja

RedMolly

My beat is correct

John61480

The Elements of Style

aadams73

A Work in Progress

expatbrat

Look what we made:

JBI

Jamesaritchie

Carrie in PA

Write All The Words!

Del

Sky isn't falling, ground is rising

HorrorWriter

It's a new dawn. It's a new day.

blacbird