getting the plot going

Oddsocks · Oct 12, 2006

How early in a novel must the plot or main storyline be revealed? I've heard that it should all be out there very early on if you want to catch a reader's interest. How much of the plot has to be revealed for this, and how early? In the first chapter? Within the first ten chapters?

I've read stories where it takes quite a while to get the main story going (for example, Obernewtyn by Isobelle Carmody), in which it takes eight or nine chapters to get to the place where things really start happening. Is this normal?

DamaNegra · Oct 12, 2006

First ten chapters? The reader must have at least an idea of what the plot is going to be in the first chapter, at the most. I'm reading a book that, in spite of having reached past chapter 15, I still don't have a clear idea of where the bloody hell this book is going, which makes it highly annoying to read, plus you get the feeling that the book is completely pointless.

Have it all out early, make the reader get interested in the plot and the characters.

And the slow beginnings were normal a long time ago, you can mostly see it in the classics. With the competitive market we have to day, that's a no-no.

Arkie · Oct 12, 2006

I read a John Grisham interview recently in Time (I believe), where he said the reader needs to love your main character on page one.

Scrawler · Oct 12, 2006

As a reader, I have to feel involved as soon as possible- whether it's through great characters, or a plot that makes me need to know. Otherwise, I'll put the book back on the shelf.

Forbidden Snowflake · Oct 12, 2006

I don't need to know about the plot of the book immediately. But the character on page one has to be in an interesting situation for me to continue reading and then I gotta find the character interesting and in such a case I'm willing to continue reading until I see where this is leading to.

sunandshadow · Oct 12, 2006

There are books which start with a mini plot arc and then launch into the main plot arc later. I think this type of beginning can work well because the action of the mini-plot hooks the reader in and gives you a chance to drop enough exposition that the initial incident of the main plot makes sense when it finally happens (perhaps as the climax or consequence of the mini-plot). Also, some books are more sequential and have a series of small plots, the climax of the last of which functions as the climax for the book. For example _A Series of Unfortunate Events_ has a plot like this.

Oddsocks · Oct 13, 2006

What can be done about plots that require a few chapters worth of lead-up events to be introduced? Would this require a mini plot arc? This is something I'm having difficulty with. There are things that have to happen before the main thread can really begin.

Tracy · Oct 13, 2006

I think you need to pose a question very early on, as early as page one. The reader needs to have some sense of what the protaganist wants that she doesn't have - so that they're immediately wondering, "Will she get it?" and that keeps them reading. What the progagonist wants can change - maybe getting the first thing she wants causes problems which lead onto the bigger plot, but there must always be something being sought. IMHO

Shadow_Ferret · Oct 13, 2006

My "plot" doesn't emerge until 8 (double-spaced) pages in, about 1800 words into the story.

Higgins · Oct 13, 2006

Stop loving Mr Ed?

Arkie said:
I read a John Grisham interview recently in Time (I believe), where he said the reader needs to love your main character on page one.

I'll give you an answer that you'll endorse:
If they could have interviewed the horse on Mr Ed, I'm sure he would have said that the reader needs to love the main character before they even see the book.

RedWombat · Oct 13, 2006

I don't think there's a hard and fast rule for when stuff has to happen that you can point to and go "Plot ahoy!"

I do think that it has to be interesting the whole way through.

Perdido Street Station, one of my favorite books, doesn't have the real plot grind into action until about 200 pages in--prior to that, it's all subplots and character.

I don't recommend emulating this unless your world is jaw-droppingly fascinating or hysterically funny or you write like an angel, but it can be done. However, in general, I'd get the plot rolling fairly quickly out of the gate, within a chapter or two, or else you're relying pretty heavily on people sticking around to see what you say next, rather than what happens next, and that's an iffy position to be in.

If that makes any sense...

IrishScribbler · Oct 13, 2006

My WIP opens with a college-age woman self-mutilating, then trying to hide it from her mother. Through the opening scene, I'm able to reveal her struggle with depression and self-mutilation, her obsessive-compulsive disorder, her detachment from her mother, and her personality (relating her life through literature).

NeuroFizz · Oct 13, 2006

This all depends on the genre, to some extent, in my opinion. But I think it is necessary to place a character (usually the main character) in a very interesting situation in the very first scene, and this situation should directly (sometimes indirectly) relate to the plot of the book. That plot doesn't have to be laid out in the opening pages. And while it is important to have an immediate love of the main character, a good book can also generate an immediate hate for an antagonistic character, or create a situation so intriguing, the characterization falls in more gradually. One can come up with examples from so many different kinds of openings, all from highly successful books, that absolute rules are impossible to formulate. Just make the opening extremely interesting and have it lead into the main story so that the interest climbs. Readers will keep reading.

ChaosTitan · Oct 13, 2006

Oddsocks said:
What can be done about plots that require a few chapters worth of lead-up events to be introduced? Would this require a mini plot arc? This is something I'm having difficulty with. There are things that have to happen before the main thread can really begin.

If it takes three or more chapters for your plot to get started, you may want to take a critical look at those chapters and make sure you absolutely need them.

scarletpeaches · Oct 13, 2006

From the first letter of the first word of the first page.

sunandshadow · Oct 13, 2006

Oddsocks said:
What can be done about plots that require a few chapters worth of lead-up events to be introduced? Would this require a mini plot arc? This is something I'm having difficulty with. There are things that have to happen before the main thread can really begin.

I would guess that a mini-plot arc would be a good way to handle that, but it's hard to say without knowing the details. If your main plot is something like a tense complicated political situation, then it probably really needs a few chapters of lead-up events supported by a mini-plot or two. On the other hand if your main plot centers around one character and their emotions or adventurous actions, your lead-up material could probably be handled as backstory, dropped in a bit at a time after the main plot starts.

Ottergirl25 · Oct 13, 2006

This is a great question, and one I have asked recently asked myself. I am writing my first book, and my changing action, or the scene that really gets into the meat of my book, does not happen until about 15,000 words. I am worried about this, but for now I am just bucking the system and writing what it is my head. The first 15,000 words hint at what will come- and my very first page has some "hints" as to the plot- so I hope this is good enough! Only time will tell.

MidnightMuse · Oct 13, 2006

I've always had a tendency to do a slow buildup, have the plot unfold in the first three or four pages. But this time, I commit murder on page one, in the first paragraph.

That should help with a hook, I hope !

maestrowork · Oct 13, 2006

It depends. In general you want to get the main story going as soon as possible. But in some stories, you can present them with a maguffin and then do a switch on them -- Psycho comes to mind: the real story didn't happen until midway through. However, Janet's Leigh's story does eventually mesh with Anthony Perkins', so it's not totally irrelevant.

The bottom line is you need to hook and hold the readers from the get go. There has to be plot movement right off the bat, so that you will want to find out what happens next. It doesn't have to be the main plot (but it should be relevant) but you should not let the readers ask, "Where is the plot?" and give them reasons to put it down.

Simon Woodhouse · Oct 13, 2006

I like to get the characters moving along the storyline by the end of chapter one. But the overall plot and revealing the bigger picture, that happens in small steps all the way through the book. It usually goes something like this – character A wants something, character A gets it, character A finds out what it can do, character A decides what he/she is going to do with it, character A tries to do it.

moth · Oct 13, 2006

I agree with NeuroFizz. Something, anything interesting from page one is a must, and having it tied to the main plot is even better...but different things work for different stories.

Also keep in mind that a first draft usually ends up being very different from the finished product. I don't see why you can't write out the lead-up events now, fully aware that they may end up tightened or moved in revisions. A common thing I see writers say is that they end up scrapping their first few chapters (or re-integrating the information at later points in the plot), but that they did need to write out those first chapters to help with the ultimate forming of the story.

Don't feel like you have to make a decision now and not ever change it. Sometimes you have to write a bunch of stuff to work through things in your mind, even if that stuff doesn't end up making the final cut. That's what happens to me every time!

backspacebutton · Oct 13, 2006

Every agent that I have talked to has indicated that you need to introduce your protagonist AND your plot in the first few pages. Then work out the details to make it all make sense as you go forward.

Personally, I hate a book that makes me read a lot before I get to the catch. I'll often skip the first chapters or put it down completely if that's the case.

blacbird · Oct 13, 2006

DamaNegra said:
The reader must have at least an idea of what the plot is going to be in the first chapter, at the most.

I disagree here. What the reader needs (at least this reader) at the very beginning of a novel is something that gives trust that reading onward will be rewarded. That doesn't necessarily need to be an immediate indication of plot. Especially since it's common practice to reveal some hint of plot on the book jacket, prior to the thing ever being opened.

caw.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 13, 2006

Plot

The plot needs to start on page one. This does not, in any way, mean you have to jump right into the heart of the action. That's a cookie cutter, get me away from that agent notion.

It does, however, mean that whatever happens on page one must be relevant to the plot, must be a link in a chain that leads unbroken all the way to the end of the story.

There's nothng at all wrong with long, slow openings, some of the best and most famous writers out there use them, But the long slow opening has to be relevant to the story, and must lead logically to the story.

What you can't do is break the chain. If you do, people stop reading.

Having said this, the average new writer does begin a novel a couple of chapters before it should begin. One of the smartest things most new writers can do is write the novel, then throw away the first two chapters and open with chapter three.

blacbird · Oct 13, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
It does, however, mean that whatever happens on page one must be relevant to the plot,.

Relevant to the plot I agree with. But even then, I don't need to know the manner in which what happens on page one is relevant to the plot. In fact, it's often a matter of pleasure to go "Aha!" at some point later in the book when you recognize just how the book started has been figured into the plot. If, through vivid, memorable characters, sharp writing, well-established tension, maybe some clever humor, the writer has established the trust I mentioned, I'll read on with the confidence that all will be revealed. I've found that, once the trust is established at the beginning, I'm seldom disappointed later.

There are exceptions.

caw.

getting the plot going

Oddsocks

DamaNegra

Mexican on the loose!

Arkie

a reader's ear and a writer's heart

Scrawler

Bored fanatic

Forbidden Snowflake

I'm quite put out.

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

Oddsocks

Tracy

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

Higgins

RedWombat

Runs With Scissors

IrishScribbler

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

ChaosTitan

Around

scarletpeaches

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

Ottergirl25

MidnightMuse

Midnight Reading

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Simon Woodhouse

moth

my own two hands

backspacebutton

blacbird

Jamesaritchie

blacbird