Interesting Quote for the day:

[ddgryphon]

One of my Homepage modules provides a daily quote. Today I got the following:

A poem is no place for an idea.
- Edgar Watson Howe (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/33807.html)

Thoughts anyone?

[JRH]

Howe was a writer known for his cynacism and aphorisms, of which I concede this is one. If this is representative, however, of the accuracy of his aphorisms, (which are a proper form of poetry), it's, at the very least, contradictory).

A poem not based on a idea has no meaning and a poem without meaning is a waste of time. (for both the writer and reader).

Think about it.

JRH

[P.H.Delarran]

Well I couldn't find much on the guy to know where he was coming from, but it sounds as though he was not fond of the abstract. I'm sure he would cringe at free form poetry.
Unless we have different ideas about what 'idea' means, I do disagree with JRH's statement, ' A poem not based on a idea has no meaning and a poem without meaning is a waste of time. (for both the writer and reader).'
I think a poem about a scene from nature or an animal or anything described visually does not need an 'idea' backing it up to make it powerful.

[kborsden]

what if the idea behind the poem is nothing?
does nothing then become something?

[JRH]

Hi PH,

a brief biography of Howe can be found at: http://www.bookrags.com/biography/edgar-watson-howe/

Further examples of his aphorisms include the following:

"Americans detest all lies except lies spoken in public or printed lies".

"Express a mean opinion of yourself occasionally; it will show your friends that you know how to tell the truth".

"If you don't learn to laugh at trouble, you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old"

"Many people would be more truthful were it not for their uncontrollable desire to talk".

"Men have as exaggerated an idea of their rights as women have of their wrongs".

"When a friend is in trouble, don't annoy him by asking if there is any thing you can do. Think up something appropriate and do it".

"Abuse a man unjustly, and you will make friends for him."

Hope you find them impressive.

JRH

P.S. As for KBorsden's post I can only point out that "zero" (which is generally considered a name for nothing) has been recognized as having value in Mathematics for years (and a necessary one at that), and I suspect that "if the idea behind the poem is nothing", the only something that could be created would be "nothing of value"

[Kentuk]

The writer I want to know more about is this dude Anon.
prolific and can he genre hop.

Kentuk

[kborsden]

sorry JRH, I disagree.
I therefore put it to anyone enclined to write a poem about nothing and see if we do indeed end up with "nothing of value"

[JRH]

Feel free to give it a try KB. Since I believe any Poem must begin with a LEGITIMATE purpose, I have no interest in such an exercise myself, although you might take Macleish's "End Of The World" for inspiration, as it does end up with "Nothing, Nothing, Nothing at all", (and, as a whole, reflects a great deal of value).

In the same light I would be very interested in seeing examples of poetry consisting of "description" only with no underlying purpose or idea to tie that description to, as I don't see description as an end in itself, but simply as a tool available for achieving one's ends.

Write On,

JRH

[Silver King]

what if the idea behind the poem is nothing?
does nothing then become something?
Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. (I heard that in a song once...)

[poetinahat]

Maybe what he really meant is a knock on poetry: that the one sure way to keep anyone from reading an idea - let alone taking an idea seriously - is to put it into a poem.

[P.H.Delarran]

now that's an idea.

[wordsheff]

i think this has to do with eliot's objective correlative and williams no ideas but things.

WS

therefore, just cause you have a sweet idea doesn't mean you got art

[DeniseK]

My first impression when I read that: He is saying an idea is not enough. It has to be expounded on, explained, or examined.

[moblues]

Maybe what he really meant is a knock on poetry: that the one sure way to keep anyone from reading an idea - let alone taking an idea seriously - is to put it into a poem.
Makes sense to me, poet. This made me think back to something I'd read about some years ago: How many books of fiction and poetry were used during the first two World Wars for encryption and code sharing purposes by the priciples involved? Hmmh ...

[wordsheff]

i read flaubert set out to write a book about nothing...i dont know which one came out of that if any...

and seinfeld is a show about nothing and there is certainly value to that!

WS

[moblues]

what if the idea behind the poem is nothing?
does nothing then become something?


I don't think it's possible to write about nothing.

If a poet, or any other type of writer for that matter, had decided that they were determined to write about nothing, how would she/he even go about this? Once the words were written--they existed. This/these word(s) would surely mean something to someone.

The next thought might be: What if this author, in the goal of writing about nothing, simply inked "The End?" There is no story, right? It would be about nothing, right? No.

There was an end to something. The author simply neglected to tell us what this was.

If someone wrote just a single word, whether it was on 3,000 year old parchment paper, or it was in a memo that was found under a 19th century desk; it will always have meant something to someone. It's human nature.

[wordsheff]

just behold nothing that is not there, and the nothing that is.

[louisgodwin]

A poem is no place for an idea.


My first knee-jerk interpretation is that he must be the type of guy who appreciates the "simple & pretty" type of poetry, but probably not any preachy poetry that promotes a particular political or religious idea.

[moblues]

just behold nothing that is not there, and the nothing that is.

But one cannot behold nothing, can one?

[Godfather]

depends what your definition of nothing is