This isn't a keeping-me-up-at-night question, but I have to know: what is the right term to describe something made by elves? In other books I've encountered "Elfin," "Elven," and "Elvin," and was wondering which one is generally regarded as correct.
Elfin, Elven, Elvin
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Elfin is the dictionary, Elven is Tolkien's neologism but now in wide use, Elvin is a chipmunk in a sequin-covered suit (but seriously, it's just bad spelling). My editor made me use elfin but I still disgree and think elven (for modern high fantasy) is what most readers expect.
As veinglory said, elfin is the correct dictionary word but to me elfin always has the connotation of "looking like an elf" rather than "made by elves". (Yes, the word does have both those meanings but that's how I see the word ) So when I read stuff, elven *appears* more correct to me when you mean "made by elves" but that's just me
) So when I read stuff, elven *appears* more correct to me when you mean "made by elves" but that's just me 
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Technically, elven wasn't a neologism; it is used in medieval German, Old English and Middle English. Tolkien was umm, "restoring" the word.
Spenser invented elfin. Tolkien wanted dwarves and elves as the plurals, as they are in Old English, and compared them, rightly with hoof, and hooves. See his Letters, #236 to Raynor Unwin.
Elves, and Elvish are both listed in the Amercan Heritage Dictionary and the OED as acceptable if "variant."
So go with Elves, and Elvish, whether you upper-case or not.
Spenser invented elfin. Tolkien wanted dwarves and elves as the plurals, as they are in Old English, and compared them, rightly with hoof, and hooves. See his Letters, #236 to Raynor Unwin.
Elves, and Elvish are both listed in the Amercan Heritage Dictionary and the OED as acceptable if "variant."
So go with Elves, and Elvish, whether you upper-case or not.
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For those who want the gory details:
ælf, ylf (app. recorded only in pl. ylfe)
alve
alfe
elfe
elf.
pl. elves:
ylfe
alven
elfes
Scots. elvis
elfs
elves.
ælf, ylf (app. recorded only in pl. ylfe)
alve
alfe
elfe
elf.
pl. elves:
ylfe
alven
elfes
Scots. elvis
elfs
elves.
So here's what I've gathered from this:
"elfin" descibes the figure of a small santa/shoemaker elf, or something it has built
elvin is a misspelling
"elven" and "elvish": I guess they're both meant for Tolkien's tall, beautiful elf variety, but what's the difference between them? Are they both correct?
"elfin" descibes the figure of a small santa/shoemaker elf, or something it has built
"elven" and "elvish": I guess they're both meant for Tolkien's tall, beautiful elf variety, but what's the difference between them? Are they both correct?
I'd use Elf (singular noun), Elves (plural noun) and Elvish (adjective; the sword was Elvish, and the name of a the Elvish language in English).
Elven is an alternate form for the adjective.
Elven is an alternate form for the adjective.
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Just don't do what one fantasy writer did in the 1980s and use "elfinlike." One of the reviews (probably Baird Searles ) pointed out that this mean those characters were "elf like like."
It's no wonder some authors don't just give up and call them the fey. Or is that faeries? No, wait, fairies? Wait... maybe they're the Sidhe? No, no, no one can pronounce that one. Sith? Hmm, George Lucas has taken over that one. Never mind, I'll just write mystery novels.
) pointed out that this mean those characters were "elf like like." It's no wonder some authors don't just give up and call them the fey. Or is that faeries? No, wait, fairies? Wait... maybe they're the Sidhe? No, no, no one can pronounce that one. Sith? Hmm, George Lucas has taken over that one. Never mind, I'll just write mystery novels.
AnneMarble said:It's no wonder some authors don't just give up and call them the fey. Or is that faeries? No, wait, fairies? Wait... maybe they're the Sidhe? No, no, no one can pronounce that one. Sith? Hmm, George Lucas has taken over that one. Never mind, I'll just write mystery novels.
I've got a whole chunk on the relationship, mythologically, and linguistically, betwen elf and fairie/fey.
Sidhe is pronounced just like Modern English "she."
And the root of the word means "seat," as in "royal seat," while the word itself, that is Irish síd, means "hill," as in [fairy] hill, so that the people who dwell in the síd became known as the sidhe.
Sith is an English take on sidhe.
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I read something about that somewhere, and forgot most of it.Medievalist said:
Dang, I've been calling them the shay.Medievalist said:
Well I'm still doing better than my mother. She's French, and thus still refuses to believe that Sean is pronounced Shawn. Hmm, I wonder if that's because rulers tended to build their fortifications on mounds even from way back? And of course, variations of "hill" show up in a lot of names. I've read that the name "Marble" comes from the old word for "hill by the boundary valley." Does that mean I have an excuse to act like a queen?Medievalist said:
And really bad guys in Star Wars. I wonder if George Lucas did that on purpose?Medievalist said:
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AnneMarble said:
I think it's probably because Ireland is covered with tumuli, barrows, burial mounds of the bronze age peoples, often buried in state with grave goods for the next world beside them.
The Welsh word for a "special" mound is gorsedd, cognate with the same *sed or "seat" word that gives Irish síd. Both have myths not only about the otherworld being entered via such a mound, but about prophecies regarding Important Stuff like kingship being derived from the mounds, the people in them, or someone sitting or sleeping on them. The Norse have this too.
And of course, variations of "hill" show up in a lot of names. I've read that the name "Marble" comes from the old word for "hill by the boundary valley." Does that mean I have an excuse to act like a queen?
You need no excuse, as far as I'm concerned
Yep; he got via Joseph Campbell, who tried hard, whose heart was in the right place, but kinda dropped the ball on the Celtic stuff.
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Don't make me come after you with a Great Boon. Cause I will.Medievalist said:
And that tall thing on the left is a monomyth.
Elvis
Who's Elvis?
veinglory said:That's why I added the Elvis suit to explain the E. Keep up, people
Who's Elvis?
Elf
You know, however it's spelled, if I ever encounter another elf in a book, it had better be one orginal, incredible, astounding use, or I'm going to throw the book against the nearest wall.
You know, however it's spelled, if I ever encounter another elf in a book, it had better be one orginal, incredible, astounding use, or I'm going to throw the book against the nearest wall.
Fantasy9 said:
Elfin refers specifically to appearance. Something may have an elfin appearance, but not be elven, if you get my drift. It could also be elvish but I'mnot entirely sure where the line should be drawn on distinctions between elven and elvish. Some place it at elven being physical properties and elvish being mental -- like language or philosolophy.
Elvin is just silly.
Medievalist said:
I've read that Tolkien regretted having used "dwarves" realizing only after his books had become so popular that the correct plural should have been dwarfs (snow white and the seven dwarfs, eg). Both are considered acceptable now, but only because his work put dwarves in the mainstream.
I could be wrong. This is how I remember it.
dclary said:
Yep, you're wrong. He was adamant right up to the year of his death, insisting that the copyeditors restore his preferences.
Dwarfs really and truly is not the standard. Either is acceptable, but you'll find that most follow Tolkien model.
Elfin is bogus. Really. Spenser invented it, in an attempt to look "medieval."
And if any of you are now catching the elves philological obsession, I can point you to the dissertation of a medieval colleague; it's on the use of Elf in Medieval English literature
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