The Next One

popmuze · Oct 6, 2006

When trying to come up with an idea for my next novel, I've run through six or seven false starts without getting to page one. Fact is, before starting and finishing my current novel, I had about seven years of attempts that never made it past fifty pages.

I'm wondering how selective the people here are with their ideas for novels. Do you run with anything for ten pages just to see if it makes it up the flagpole? Do you feel something has to really be worth saying before you commit to it? Do you give an idea a day or two to percolate to see if the magic wears off? Do you fully populate the plot to see how it holds up? How do you know your idea is novelworthy anyway--worth all that time and emotional energy?

Come to think of it, it's kind of like a new romantic relationship. But I've been married too many years to remember what that's like.

PeeDee · Oct 6, 2006

I know my idea is novelworthy if I start writing it and when I run out of things to write for that idea, I have a finished novel. Otherwise, how can you know?

Mostly, novel ideas show up in my head differently than short story ideas or comic book ideas or whatnot. They're interchangable but when they first start to build themselves up in my head, they have this little lable which tells me what they want to be.

NeuroFizz · Oct 6, 2006

Walk (don't run) through life with your eyes and ears open, and all other senses ready. Eventually, one of those little pebbles in your shoe will begin to feel like a boulder.

PeeDee · Oct 6, 2006

NeuroFizz said:
Walk (don't run) through life with your eyes and ears open, and all other senses ready. Eventually, one of those little pebbles in your shoe will begin to feel like a boulder.

That metaphor is too much work. You must write boring stuff. It's too hard. I'm going to go read Dan Brown instead of your post.

Prawn · Oct 6, 2006

PeeDee said:
That metaphor is too much work. You must write boring stuff. It's too hard. I'm going to go read Dan Brown instead of your post.

Ah! But you must understand the biblical significance of his metaphor. There is a secret deep within waiting to be discovered by Tom Hanks!

seun · Oct 6, 2006

PeeDee said:
That metaphor is too much work. You must write boring stuff. It's too hard. I'm going to go read Dan Brown instead of your post.

There's no need for such drastic measures, old bean.

Amiton · Oct 6, 2006

For me pesonally, I see how far I can flesh out the idea before I bother putting it to paper. All of my stories are built around an idea, though, and they can be fleshed out and developed if it's a good full story, or sometimes, kind of like what PeeDee said earlier, its crux is only in a single scene, or a short series of events, and it's more applicable to writing a short.

We all have false starts, though. Not every idea is a good idea. I think it might get a little easier to tell which is which as you develop more experience.

Amiton.

MidnightMuse · Oct 6, 2006

I find, for myself, I'll have ideas floating around with snips and bits in them, but eventually one of those ideas will start to get bigger and better. After a bit of rumination, I'll see all sorts of twists and turns and a thick plot develop.

That's the one I start working on next. I wait until I can mentally picture it fleshed out and whole. If I can't imagine the story further than the first scene or beyond one major plot twist, I don't bother wasting my time because it will either never fill out, or I'll be forcing it to and that always shows in the writing.

FergieC · Oct 6, 2006

I generally play around with the characters first, ask them a few questions, find their voices and what makes them tick.

Characters always seem to be my starting point, and the plot comes later. If a character doesn't take off and start to interest me at that pre-writing point, I dump them there and then, and go for another one who I'd maybe initially thought of as a minor character.

When I have 2 or 3 interesting characters, then I begin to get a sense of what their story might be, and start writing to see what happens. At that point, some really great sounding ideas turn out to actually be dross on the page, and other really daft seeming ones might suddenly appear quite natural. (Like I have a ghost in the one I'm writing now, which is just bizarre. It's gritty urban realism and there's this sodding ghost in it now and I've never written a ghost in my life and certainly would never have plotted one in because it sounds really dumb but it was completely natural in the context of the characters...)

Anyway, that's getting off the point.

I didn't used to do this at all - just used to start writing, and it was a nightmare to reach 20,000 words before realising a main character was lifeless and boring and had run out of steam already. The plot, I can make up as I go along, just so long as the characters are full and interesting.

popmuze · Oct 6, 2006

What I'll do is scribble down some ideas, plot twists, characters, scenes, and then discuss them with my wife, who has a sixth sense (and a great track record) when it comes to whether I'm wasting my time or not--time that could be better spent changing the storm windows or falling off the roof.

Lately she's been shooting down everything. Maybe it's just that she's got a lot of other stuff lined up for me to do this winter.

ChaosTitan · Oct 6, 2006

You guys get to decide what you write next????

Wow, I want your muses. Mine continue to pop into my life and say "I'm next, and you can't do anything about it." If I try to argue, and to work on something else...well, it isn't pretty.

PeeDee · Oct 6, 2006

chaostitan said:
You guys get to decide what you write next????

Wow, I want your muses. Mine continue to pop into my life and say "I'm next, and you can't do anything about it." If I try to argue, and to work on something else...well, it isn't pretty.

Mine seems to. I was intending to write a short story and a goofy-fun Halloween YA novel before I started on my whopper-big Roman novel. While writing the short story and other stuff, I was going to edit my last novel and get it ready for publication.

Instead, I'm apparently writing the novel and I'm writing it now, whether I like it or not. Arg. Arg. Arg.

Lilybiz · Oct 6, 2006

Thank you all for a very interesting discussion. I've finished the second draft of my first novel, and while it sits (stewing, awaiting draft three), I consider how to begin a second novel.

Instead of beginning with characters, I'm inspired by a place--a place I've been to and to which I want to return, kinda like it haunts me. As soon as I begin to study that place, the story starts to form in my mind.

The first novel brewed in my head for quite a while until I knew all the people I was going to put in the place, and why they were there, and what their relationships were to each other and the location. I didn't have an outline on paper, but in my head I had a complete novel. I admit it was a bit like a boulder in my shoe...

But I wish I had chaostitan's problem, and didn't have to think about it so much.

ChaosTitan · Oct 6, 2006

aertep said:
But I wish I had chaostitan's problem, and didn't have to think about it so much.

I think part of it is that even while I'm writing one novel, there are ideas swirling for others. Constantly there, hinting at their story and at the characters. I keep files for every hatched idea, and add bits when they come to me, so there is always something else. Something new waiting for a shape. I have enough novel ideas waiting for shapes to keep me writing for ten years.

It's when the shape distinguishes itself that the muses latch on and shove it in my face and say "It's my turn!"

maddythemad · Oct 6, 2006

I usually know exactly what novel I want to write at any one time, but I go through ten, twenty different openings, trying to decide which one sounds right. Some of these could be less than a page, some are fifty pages. When I was nine I once threw out 150 pages, convinced a different opening would be better. *Note to self*: Never throw ANYTHING out. Of course, a year later, I totally wanted those 150 pages back.

Lilybiz · Oct 6, 2006

chaostitan said:
I think part of it is that even while I'm writing one novel, there are ideas swirling for others. Constantly there, hinting at their story and at the characters. I keep files for every hatched idea, and add bits when they come to me, so there is always something else. Something new waiting for a shape. I have enough novel ideas waiting for shapes to keep me writing for ten years.

It's when the shape distinguishes itself that the muses latch on and shove it in my face and say "It's my turn!"

Okay, I see what you mean. I've been to enough places that haunt me (I think of them and want to populate them), that I could begin to research them and keep files on them while I work on the current WIP. Maybe it's just a matter of opening my head to the thoughts.

Or travelling to more compelling places. Very inspiring, chaostitan. Thanks.

Arkie · Oct 6, 2006

I just came from my local Barnes and Noble and a discussion with the manager. Based on floor displays and the manager's input, it seems the hottest selling books fall into three categories: 1) Anything Middle East,
2) Religious, particularly Christian, and 3) Memoir driven--and anything non-fiction outsells fiction by a considerable margin.

If you want the best shot at being published, write something along the lines of "The Arabian Nights," and use a Persian pen name.

maestrowork · Oct 6, 2006

I can't speak for anyone else except myself. My ideas always come from either "what if" or personal stories. My first book came from a personal anecdote. After I was done with it and thinking about what to write next, I looked at personal stories again -- this time, my father's. I usually think about the story for a long time before I type the first word. I thought about the story for about 3 months before I wrote the first chapter. Then I let the chapter sit for another few months, while thinking about it all the time (characters, mapping out the plot, etc.)...

Lilybiz · Oct 6, 2006

Arkie said:
If you want the best shot at being published, write something along the lines of "The Arabian Nights," and use a Persian pen name.

Yes, but by the time I finish it the "in" thing will be baseball novels by teenaged girls.

Jack_Roberts · Oct 6, 2006

PeeDee said:
Mine seems to. I was intending to write a short story and a goofy-fun Halloween YA novel before I started on my whopper-big Roman novel. While writing the short story and other stuff, I was going to edit my last novel and get it ready for publication.

Instead, I'm apparently writing the novel and I'm writing it now, whether I like it or not. Arg. Arg. Arg.

You've got a pirate muse? Interesting!

I feel the same as you two. I'm not complaining, but "she" gives me no choice. I can't even write for my online friends anymore.

blacbird · Oct 6, 2006

popmuze said:
When trying to come up with an idea for my next novel, I've run through six or seven false starts without getting to page one.

If you haven't got to page one, you haven't had any false starts. By definition.

caw.

Simon Woodhouse · Oct 6, 2006

I let my ideas percolate, but that lasts for months rather than days. As I'm working on one project, I'm always thinking about the next. I start off with a basic premise (this usually contains two or three ideas) and see if it suggests an interesting character. I then spend the longest time thinking about what it is that character wants. If what they want seems like it might make an interesting story, I then start working on the plot, and this is the point where I start making notes. But most ideas don't make it to this stage.

janetbellinger · Oct 6, 2006

I don't yet know what my next novel will be about. I just know it will have a Maritime setting. That is not happening through choice but through circumstance.

popmuze · Oct 6, 2006

blacbird said:
If you haven't got to page one, you haven't had any false starts. By definition.

caw.

Then let's just say "non-starts."

I am reminded of the great poem, whose name and author I can't remember, but one of whose lines goes something like:

"between the cup and the lip...falls the shadow."

I guess I'm living, parched, in shadowland.

Lilybiz · Oct 6, 2006

popmuze said:
"between the cup and the lip...falls the shadow."

I guess I'm living, parched, in shadowland.

It's a very creative place. Anything can happen there. Eventually one has to commit to an idea, but in shadowland all ideas begin.

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