Young Adult vs. Mid-grade

Kristal · Oct 4, 2006

I know this sounds dumb... but mid grade is probably more for like 9-12 year olds and young adult is the teens?

Am I right?

This is one of those questions I fear asking because I don't want to look stupid...but I gave in.

--Kristal

Jamesaritchie · Oct 4, 2006

Kristal said:
I know this sounds dumb... but mid grade is probably more for like 9-12 year olds and young adult is the teens?

Am I right?

This is one of those questions I fear asking because I don't want to look stupid...but I gave in.

--Kristal

Well, middle grade actually attracts readers up to fourteen or so. And many adults. Adults read very little YA, but read a LOT of middle grade fiction. And the biggest market for YA is the teenage girl market. Biys read far less YA than girls, so the market is structured acordingly.

The age of the protagonist, and the level of sex and violence often makes the difference in classification, but so does the storyline.

And while adults like reading middle grade fiction, kids of all ages generally don't want to read books that have protagonists younger than they are.

Cassidy · Oct 4, 2006

hi,
it is a bit confusing because different publishers use different terms (young reader/early chapter book, middle-grade/ juvenile etc) and have different age ranges for these.

i think of middle grade or juvenile fiction as geared to 9-12/13, and having a protagonist in that age range (usually near the upper end, since kids do prefer to read about someone slightly older rather than younger.)

and i think of YA as geared to teens... mostly younger teens, as older teens who read a lot often have moved on to adult fiction.

but like i said, publishers often list very specific guidlines for age it should appeal to, age of protagonist, length of manuscript etc.

Hope that helps! -Cassidy

cree · Oct 4, 2006

http://www.write4kids.com/colum44.html

breakdowns by age.

Provrb1810meggy · Oct 4, 2006

From my experience, Middle Grade is usually shelved in the Children's section at larger bookstores. Most of my friends (I'm 14) haven't gone in that section for quite some time. Frequently, I see kids who are in the middle grade range (like 12) looking at YA books.

It's such a fine line that's it's confusing. Some people told me to market my book as YA and other people said to market it as MG. I went with my gut.

jporter · May 28, 2007

I'm getting some confusing messages from my agent about length for my YA chicklit book. He says the range is 50-70K. Does that sound right to y'all?

Dancre · May 28, 2007

My YA is going to be a little less than 50K. It's geared for the teens, 14 and up. I"m not sure how to lable it, maybe YA? It's got some violence and some cursing, so I guess YA? I agree, it's pretty confusing.

kim

Maprilynne · May 28, 2007

50-70K is perfect for standard YA. That doesn't mean there aren't both longer and shorter, but that's a good standard length.

Harper K · May 28, 2007

jporter said:
I'm getting some confusing messages from my agent about length for my YA chicklit book. He says the range is 50-70K. Does that sound right to y'all?

Yes, especially for a first novel. If you check out page counts of most contemporary YA novels, and especially debut novels, you'll see that a lot of them are between 180 - 230 pages. Think of 50,000 words as being roughly 200 bound pages.

Jordygirl · May 30, 2007

Cassidy said:
and i think of YA as geared to teens... mostly younger teens, as older teens who read a lot often have moved on to adult fiction.

I'm not speaking for all teens of course, but both the ones I can think of (me included) are older teens and love YA. I (we) read adult stuff too, but most of the adult we read are classics.
I don't think you should assume that older teens have left YA behind. It is true that kids don't normally want to read about people younger than them (I'm the exception to that rule), but I think by the older teens/young twenties most readers have got past that. I could be wrong on that, but I'm pretty sure.

RLSMiller · May 30, 2007

Jordygirl said:
I'm not speaking for all teens of course, but both the ones I can think of (me included) are older teens and love YA. I (we) read adult stuff too, but most of the adult we read are classics.
I don't think you should assume that older teens have left YA behind. It is true that kids don't normally want to read about people younger than them (I'm the exception to that rule), but I think by the older teens/young twenties most readers have got past that. I could be wrong on that, but I'm pretty sure.

To be honest, as long as the age of the protagonist doesn't stunt the story or anything (for example, in early Harry Potter his young age doesn't affect much), I'll read anything. It's not like I'm in some huge hurry to seem grown up and therefore I'll refuse to read any YA. As long as it's good, I don't care if it's adult or YA.

YA shouldn't really shut off older audiences anyway. MG, perhaps, since vocab is usually toned down a little for the age-group, but I don't see why older teens, or even adults shouldn't read YA, provided the topic/themes in the book are interesting. Perhaps I'm expecting too much, but I would think by the time you reach 12, you will be pretty much starting to form a more adult perspective anyway, and YA literature should reflect that.

Claudia Gray · May 30, 2007

I'm in my 30s, and some of the best books I've read in the past couple of years were YA. This is probably why the category has had such success recently; the older-skewing books in the category appeal strongly to teenagers but don't shut out older readers. And I think more adult readers are open to perusing the YA shelves.

Jordygirl · May 30, 2007

I recently gave my dad a YA book to read and he loved it.
Granted, yes, it was The Boy in the Striped Pajamas which, while a quick read is also very thought-provoking and deep (though it is written in a very vague way.)
By the way - recommended to everyone above 12.

jessicab_87 · Jun 8, 2007

I think it also depends on each individual reader, as others have said.

Shady Lane · Jun 8, 2007

I think YA is consistently identified to be for a younger audience than it really is. I'm 16, and I read only YA--and a good 90% of the protagonists are older than me. There are really two categories of YA, and 12-14 is not the standard. That's a much younger age group than most YA is geared towards. Most of it is for the 15-19 set, and have protagonists about the same age.

The write4kids link was very informative, but said YAs are under 200 pages. Not so. A 200 page YA is quite short.

NiennaC · Jun 8, 2007

Shady Lane said:
The write4kids link was very informative, but said YAs are under 200 pages. Not so. A 200 page YA is quite short.

I have to agree. I think that it was once the standard to have an under 200 page YA, but that's not necessarily true anymore. Most of the recent YA I've read is much longer. Especially fantasy.

reenkam · Jun 9, 2007

Personally, I think that Harry Potter has completely shifted how long a middle grade or young adult book can be. People seem to be under the impression that kids can't read more than 200 pages. Sure, it's true in school because those 200 pages will take 3 months to get through with all the activities involved, but if the book's good then people will definitely read more.

I recently read a middle grade novel call The Black Tattoo which is 110,000 words. It was Sam Enthoven's first novel. So it's definitely possible to sell stuff that's a lot longer than the 50-70 k general limit. Especially, like NiennaC said, in the fantasy genre.

After checking the word count of a bunch of YA works I have read I'd say that for a series around 50-55 is the norm while a stand along is 55-65 as a small range. Oviously a lot of books break away from those counts, but from the list I check it seemed to be a trend.

NiennaC · Jun 9, 2007

I think publishers are just starting to realize most YA readers are old enough to have long attention spans. For some reason, they assumed no one did.

greywaren · Jun 14, 2007

I might be wrong, but I was told by an editor that YA is not an age thing - it's a genre thing. In order to be considered YA by most editors, he said a novel had to involve some element of "coming of age" (to use a horribly cliched phrase) or otherwise growing pains, etc. They also tend to be a bit grittier - they don't flinch away from something a MG would normally gloss over.

gem1122 · Jun 14, 2007

greywaren said:
I might be wrong, but I was told by an editor that YA is not an age thing - it's a genre thing.

I'd agree with this. I know several adults who enjoy reading YA novels (myself included). On the other hand, I teach college kids, and very few of them talk about reading YA novels -- when it is, it's Harry Potter. Instead, they're reading Poe, mysteries, romances, horror, and fantasy.

As I work on my YA novel, I keep imagining YAs as my readers; maybe I should think differently about that?

Ziljon · Jun 14, 2007

I'm confused too. Are the Harry Potter books considered MG or YA?

Are the first and second, where he's eleven and twelve, MG, and then the rest YA?

RLB · Jun 14, 2007

I've been updating my agents-to-query list. I notice a few of them say they represent YA but don't specifically mention Middle Grade, yet when I look at their lists, they have books that sound middle grade-ish. So I'm wondering if some agents lump middle grade and YA together?

Toothpaste · Jun 14, 2007

This is a sweeping generalisation, and by no means is meant to say that MG's shouldn't have strong complex characters etc, but I think that MG's tend to be more plot driven (ie an adventure down a rabbit hole) versus YA's which are more character driven (ie girl discovers she doesn't have to be pretty to be popular).

Does this make sense?

Harper K · Jun 15, 2007

Ziljon said:
I'm confused too. Are the Harry Potter books considered MG or YA?

Are the first and second, where he's eleven and twelve, MG, and then the rest YA?

I think Harry Potter has really transcended the MG / YA split. Technically, they're shelved with the MG books in chain bookstores.

The first 3 HP books seem pretty squarely MG to me, but after that they become tricky to categorize. Because there are so many adult characters with their own character arcs in Books 4, 5, and 6, they don't quite fall within the usual conventions of YA.

Ziljon · Jun 15, 2007

I guess a label, after all, is just a label.

Young Adult vs. Mid-grade

Kristal

Jamesaritchie

Cassidy

writing for kids and teens

cree

Provrb1810meggy

jporter

Dancre

Just have fun.

Maprilynne

Author Waiting in the Wings

Harper K

here's to the girl on the go

Jordygirl

Nothing doing.

RLSMiller

Claudia Gray

Jordygirl

Nothing doing.

jessicab_87

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

NiennaC

reenkam

aka cupcake

NiennaC

greywaren

gem1122

We can pickle that

Ziljon

Tortilla di Patate

RLB

bundled

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

Harper K

here's to the girl on the go

Ziljon

Tortilla di Patate