Getting away with cliff hanger endings? Thoughts please...

MKayHavoc · Sep 29, 2006

Hi all,

I've now got a rough idea of how my novel is going to play out. But my story is going to over flow into at least a second novel. What do people think to cliff hanger endings?

I finished reading the Dark Tower series by Stephen King which I loved. And i think it was a the 5th book were Mr King left the ending on a complete cliff hanger. Starting the 6th book exactly were the 5th left off.

It didn't matter to me as I finished the 5th and already had the 6th.

Also along similar lines, I played a game recently called The Longest Journet: Dreamfall, which is basically a story driven game. It ends with nearly every story line unfinished. Ready for the third game! I hated that it ended that way but am dying to know what happens.

Opinions?

SJAB · Sep 29, 2006

Personally I would work to a conclusion of some kind; as in this part of the quest/adventure/romance/etc is finished.

Try and work to a natural break in the story, finish some story threads/sub plots off, leave some hanging, and maybe hint at new ones.

See how other writers do it, series are quite common in fantasy or historical novels.

Shadow_Ferret · Sep 29, 2006

I'm thinking a cliff hanger might be a hard sell for an unknown writer.

Even in your example, 1) Stephen King is a NAME and, 2) He didn't put the cliffhanger in until the 5th book when he knew he had a reliable audience for the series.

Saundra Julian · Sep 29, 2006

..I'm in trouble!

JanDarby · Sep 29, 2006

Didn't one of the big names -- JD Robb or Janet Evanovich -- end with a cliffhanger in a recent (a couple years go, though) book? Something about choosing between two men?

I seem to recall readers bing miffed, but they accepted it because they were already enamored of the author. IF it were a first book from an author the readers didn't have other, better experiences with, I bet a lot of readers would have boycotted later ones.

JD

PeeDee · Sep 29, 2006

I think I would (and will, very shortly, when this problem presents itself to me) write a couple of very small cliffhangers into the sub-plots of the book, but I would tie up the major plots. Not necessarily bring them to a conclusion, just wrap them up a bit, give them pause.

Like the ends of the Lord of the Rings movies, as opposed to the ends of the Back To The Future movies....if that off-the-wall analogy helps any.

Saundra Julian · Sep 29, 2006

Depends on how compelling the first book was!

Matt · Sep 30, 2006

Shadow_Ferret said:
I'm thinking a cliff hanger might be a hard sell for an unknown writer.

Even in your example, 1) Stephen King is a NAME and, 2) He didn't put the cliffhanger in until the 5th book when he knew he had a reliable audience for the series.

I agree with Shadow Ferret on this one, even though I love cliff-hanger endings. I'm more of The Empire Strikes Back method, where a first book should have a conclusion just in case the publisher only wants to take the first volume, while the second book (if published) could quite easily end on a cliff-hanger.
When I submitted The Secret War, Macmillan publishers only agreed to take the first book as I'm a first-timer, despite being told there could be at least another two. I think one reason they took it on was that The Secret War could stand alone and they wouldn't be forced to commit to another book. And if it is a resounding success the second book would then run on seamlessly.

If you do have that cliff-hanger urge, try to imbed them at the end of the chapters... kinda like the old Flash Gordon serials. But without the dodgy wire-work and crackly picture...

Gwenzilla · Sep 30, 2006

I don't tend to like cliffhangers.

First of all, if the author is new and relatively unknown, there's the real danger that the reader might never get to find out what happens, because Book II may never get published.

Secondly, even books in a series, in my opinion, should stand alone as stories. That's not to say that in the end, you should be able to read the series of books in any order, although it's nice to be able to do that-- but each book should be complete within itself.

There are ways to leave some compelling things unresolved at the end of your story that will both alert readers to the possibility of a second book or a series, and there are ways to leave them wanting more, but generally, even if plastered across the cover are the words "Book I of the Fantastical Plot-tastic Trilogy That Is Going To Change The Way You Look At Fantasy Novels About City-States With Lots of Political Intrigue," I want there to be a complete and satisfying story between the front and back covers of any individual book.

ChaosTitan · Sep 30, 2006

I dislike cliffhangers, even if I know that there will be a conclusion sometime down the road. I am impatient, and hate when a story just stops. I don't read a book if I know it's part of an unfinished duology or trilogy until all the volumes are published. Now that the Dark Tower series is complete, I will read it. I just need to know that there is going to be a conclusion.

Now if only television shows would do away with season-end cliffhangers, all would be well with the world.

Carrie in PA · Sep 30, 2006

I'm not a big fan of cliffhangers, either. You can leave me enough to want to read Book II, but crimeny, I better not put the book down dissatisfied or I won't be buying Book II. Book II can be more of a cliffhanger, but again, I better end up satisfied with the ending.

Marlowe · Sep 30, 2006

Shadow_Ferret said:
Even in your example, 1) Stephen King is a NAME and, 2) He didn't put the cliffhanger in until the 5th

Actually, the first big cliffhanger in the Dark Tower series comes at the end of book three, The Waste Lands. (And it was an especially nasty one, since the next book in the series was a very long time coming- at least by book 5, he'd publically stated that he was finishing the series in two more books.)

Still, I agree that cliffhanger endings are a very risky call, and that being an established writer (and one who's proven him or herself capable of writing more than one book) helps soothe the pain a little. Stephen R. Donaldson put a particularly sharp twist at the end of his latest book, but as a reader, I felt relatively assured knowing that he'd already done three big series, so the odds were better that he'd come back for part two.

It's possible to have a semi-cliffhanger ending that still leaves the audience with a feeling of having come to the end of something, even while they want to see what happens next. Maybe try and find some particular character or thematic arc to lend closure to, so when there are dangling plot bits, the reader won't feel cheated.

ChaosTitan · Sep 30, 2006

Marlowe said:
It's possible to have a semi-cliffhanger ending that still leaves the audience with a feeling of having come to the end of something, even while they want to see what happens next.

I did this with the novel I am querying. The original manuscript was way too long, so I had to split it into two novels. The first book has an overall arc, and a conclusion, but there are still a few dangling threads that, should the first book sell, will be tied up in the sequel.

tigaseren · Sep 30, 2006

First post here but had to reply. Cliff hangers are exactly what epilogues are for. Wrap up your last chapter as neatly as you can but then include an epilogue which will leave off right where your second book picks up. That way the reader feels like you completed the story but you have this little snippet that bridges the gap and really makes them want to go find the second book. Of course, if you do this and the next book doesn't come out for four years it going to drive your readers crazy.

civilian chic · Sep 30, 2006

Marlowe said:
It's possible to have a semi-cliffhanger ending that still leaves the audience with a feeling of having come to the end of something, even while they want to see what happens next. Maybe try and find some particular character or thematic arc to lend closure to, so when there are dangling plot bits, the reader won't feel cheated.

I agree, Marlowe; some closure is necessary ... although it is reflective of modern life and style that not all ends be neatly tied up. Such is life.

I like the device of tying events up in the MC's mind... for example, "While he might never know where Rachel had run off to, he was relieved to know that at last she was free." You know what I mean? It can seem a little trite to resolve every little question, but as long as there is resolution in the MC's mind (and in the reader's), there doesn't have to be an answer to every question. Answers and resolution don't have to be the same thing.

Personally, I think even books in a series should be able to stand alone. I began the Dark Tower series at Book 4 (don't ask why!) and fell completely in love with it and finished the series like a fanatic. (I never bothered to go back and read the first three, however.)

ChaosTitan · Sep 30, 2006

tigaseren said:
First post here but had to reply. Cliff hangers are exactly what epilogues are for.

Funny. I thought epilogues were for tying up the loose ends that your final chapter did not (the whole "And he lived happily ever after, to the end of his days" thing).

If I ever read an epilogue that ended on a cliffhanger I think I'd throw the book across the room and curse the author.

Marlowe · Sep 30, 2006

civilian chic said:
I began the Dark Tower series at Book 4 (don't ask why!) and fell completely in love with it and finished the series like a fanatic. (I never bothered to go back and read the first three, however.)

You really should- the second book is, in my opinion, the best of the lot. (I can't believe you started with book 4 and liked it; I'm a huge King booster, and even I think that one's a bit of a slog.)

civilian chic · Sep 30, 2006

Oh!!! of the series that I read, 4 stands out above and beyond them all... Roland's bittersweet experience of first love is probably the most authentic I've ever read, it really resonated with me. But maybe I'll go back and check out the first three.

To stay on-topic, the beauty of the Dark Tower series is that these books seem to be King's opus, and are totally interwoven... yet can be read individually. I still say, ditch those cliff hangers.

James D. Macdonald · Sep 30, 2006

Wrap up this book with a satisfying conclusion.

Yeah, if you've got something as big as Pirates of the Caribbean, you can end Pirates of the Caribbean II with a cliffhanger. But you can't do that with Pirates of the Caribbean I.

Getting away with cliff hanger endings? Thoughts please...

MKayHavoc

SJAB

Being edited for submission

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

Saundra Julian

A work in progress

JanDarby

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Saundra Julian

A work in progress

Matt

Gwenzilla

Rarely a leaf on the wind

ChaosTitan

Around

Carrie in PA

Write All The Words!

Marlowe

Duck of Death

ChaosTitan

Around

tigaseren

civilian chic

ChaosTitan

Around

Marlowe

Duck of Death

civilian chic

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle