Those lovely old "rules"

FloVoyager · Sep 29, 2006

pash started a thread, http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42475, concerning the old i before e except after c rule, and it got me to thinking.

Remember the old spelling and grammar mnemonics we all (okay, some of us) learned in grade school and (mostly) forgot? You know, those little sing-song poems and sayings intended to help us keep English grammar and spelling rules in mind, like i before e except after c, etc.

Anybody know any more of them? Thought we might make a collection of them here.

SeanDSchaffer · Sep 29, 2006

A E I O U and sometimes Y and sometimes W.

The vowels--I learned that one in the 2nd or 3rd Grade.

Deleted member 42 · Sep 29, 2006

When two vowels go walking, the first usually does the talking.

ModoReese · Sep 29, 2006

That no matter which version of there, their or they're you are using, they all start with THE.

Seems simple, but around my office I'm constantly seeing "thier". As in "I'll be right thier". **head explodes**

:rant:

Michelle

kikonie · Sep 29, 2006

Okay, reaching here...

The only consonants you pronounce at the end of French words are the letters found in the word, 'careful'. Did you know that?

SeanDSchaffer · Sep 29, 2006

kikonie said:
Okay, reaching here...

The only consonants you pronounce at the end of French words are the letters found in the word, 'careful'. Did you know that?

Hmmm,

A friend of mine, who learned French in College, told me that the consonant 'z' was pronounced at the end of words.

This was in reference to a local apartment complex called 'Chez Ami'. She told me--and several others--that the first word 'Chez' was pronounced 'Shez'.

I am beginning to wonder if she really knew French as well as she claimed to. If the above quoted rule is true, then she obviously made a mistake in what she told us.

Interesting stuff.

kikonie · Sep 29, 2006

She's correct, but for the wrong reason. You pronounce ANY final consonant where the next word starts with a vowel. Charming, isn't it?

TheIT · Sep 29, 2006

Sean, I'm trying to remember from my high school French classess, but I think the "z" in Chez would be pronounced only if the following word begins with a vowel. French pronunciation tries to smooth words together if possible. So, "chez ami" would have the "z" pronounced, but "chez lui" would not.

ETA: Kikonie beat me to it, but I'll leave my response, too.

To add to the mnemonics list, the only one I can think of offhand isn't grammar related, but hopefully it's close enough:

"Thirty days hath September, April, June, and November."

JanDarby · Sep 29, 2006

The only consonants you pronounce at the end of French words are the letters found in the word, 'careful'.

What about 't'? As in Chat? and Huit. And maybe 'd' too. Isn't the word for Z in French Zed? Maybe 'm' too, except I can't think of a French word that ends in that, b/c it's been way too long.

JD

kikonie · Sep 29, 2006

You say 'shat'?! um...don't

I just checked my French dictionaire: in faim (hunger), the m is not pronounced, but in sud (south), the d is

looks like French has exceptions, too

SeanDSchaffer · Sep 29, 2006

I think that is quite charming, Kikonie. A little difficult to understand, but then again, I do not know much of any language save my native one. So I already am at a disadvantage when it comes to learning new stuff.

Although I have been told that my native language is the most difficult language in the world to learn...

Sandi LeFaucheur · Sep 30, 2006

Not a word widely used outside of health or water: But there's no flour in fluoride.

Deleted member 42 · Sep 30, 2006

kikonie said:
You say 'shat'?! um...don't

I just checked my French dictionaire: in faim (hunger), the m is not pronounced, but in sud (south), the d is

looks like French has exceptions, too

Some of the exceptions, like faim, are because it's a Gaulish word (it's still I.E. with cognates in other I.E. languages like famished) -- French is essentially a cross between Gaulish and Germanic, with a hefty dose of Latin. The Latin influence is dominant (there's a reason we call it a Romance language) but the earliest substructure and vocabulary are Gaulish, with a hefty dose of Germanic words borrwed from Norman into French.

kikonie · Sep 30, 2006

<prostrates self before greatness>

Thank you, Medie - you rule! You just morphed my brain state into transcendental mode. My grey cells are having a party.

tigaseren · Sep 30, 2006

I don't remember any rule rhymes that are not already listed, but I do remember the list of 'helping verbs' I had to memorize to the tune of "America, America"
am is are was were being been been have has had do does did, shall will should could, may might and can, may might must can and would.
(some repeated to get the tune right)

Deleted member 42 · Sep 30, 2006

I will confess to bringing in songs from School House Rock to play in undergrad comp and ESL classes.

They work. A lot of the rhymes for practical things -- like the months of the year and the number of days in them -- are medieval and, while we do have them in mss., they've been preserved orally.

I think that's totally cool.

allion · Sep 30, 2006

"Conjunction junction, what's your function?"
"Hooking up words, and phrases, and clauses."

Works for me!

Karen

Bufty · Oct 1, 2006

How on earth does one remember that? It doesn't rhyme - what makes one remember it?

And out of curiosity, how did it work for anyone? What was solved by learning that?

ETA - Okay, got it. It's a memory - for infants and taught with a picture of a toy steam engine -right? :flag:

allion said:
"Conjunction junction, what's your function?"
"Hooking up words, and phrases, and clauses."

Works for me!

Karen

CaroGirl · Oct 1, 2006

Bufty said:
How on earth does one remember that? It doesn't rhyme - what makes one remember it?

And out of curiosity, how did it work for anyone? What was solved by learning that?

ETA - Okay, got it. It's a memory - for infants and taught with a picture of a toy steam engine -right?

LOL! It's a tune. The words are set to a memorable song and a cartoon that came out in the seventies on American television to help kids remember some basic grammar and other American facts (like how a bill becomes a law).

All the lyrics are here: http://www.schoolhouserock.tv/Conjunction.html

I remember it; it was one of my favourites.

Bibsy · Oct 1, 2006

A professor I had in college used the word RAVEN to remember the difference between affect and effect: Remember, Affect = Verb, Effect = Noun. Of course, it has one of those annoying exceptions in that effect can also be a verb when used to mean "to effect a change", but the noun form does seem to get mixed up a lot with affect.

And on the fun world of pronouncing final letters in French, it opens up a whole new can of worms if you're a classical singer. Final vowels that you wouldn't pronounce in spoken French are often given a sound when sung if there's a note on them.

Bibsy · Oct 1, 2006

Oh, and I just remembered another one I got from the same professor: Remember that there's "a rat" in "separate"

Bk_30 · Oct 1, 2006

that's how I remember therapist..a friend had a sweatshirt that had a teddybear printed on it and the caption "hug therapist" every time I saw it I read "hug the rapist" and would bust out laughing..another sign my brain just isn't quite normal.

Soccer Mom · Oct 1, 2006

Bk_30 said:
that's how I remember therapist..a friend had a sweatshirt that had a teddybear printed on it and the caption "hug therapist" every time I saw it I read "hug the rapist" and would bust out laughing..another sign my brain just isn't quite normal.

LOL. Your brain isn't normal and that's why we love you around here--you and that darn sockmonster you brought with you.

I LOVED schoolhouse rock and own the entire thing on DVD. Get me drunk and I'll sing the "I'm just a Bill" song at the drop of a hat. I loved the Interjection song to the tune of the Hallelujah Chorus. Genius.

Trust us, Bufty. THe songs worked.

Deleted member 42 · Oct 1, 2006

Am now off to look for the DVD; had no idea there was one.

Thanks

DamaNegra · Oct 1, 2006

SeanDSchaffer said:
Although I have been told that my native language is the most difficult language in the world to learn...

I've been told that over and over again, but I find it the easiest language to learn in the world. May be just me.

Those lovely old "rules"

FloVoyager

Will write for chocolate

SeanDSchaffer

Deleted member 42

ModoReese

Bang head here for service

kikonie

Superb member

SeanDSchaffer

kikonie

Superb member

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

JanDarby

kikonie

Superb member

SeanDSchaffer

Sandi LeFaucheur

Deleted member 42

kikonie

Superb member

tigaseren

Deleted member 42

allion

Character assassin

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

CaroGirl

Living the dream

Bibsy

Bibsy

Bk_30

muse..muse...come here muse!

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist

Deleted member 42

DamaNegra

Mexican on the loose!