and what's the deal with vampires?

The only vampire genre that seems to really be doing well is romance IMHO. There's a big Freudain pit of reasons for that. Added to that is that even a new modern heroine can be overpowered by a creature of the night so it makes the old fantasies about alpha males new and excuseable again...

What weird haircuts did they have in Bram Stoker's Dracula? (Unless you're talking about Francis Ford Coppola's movie adaptation and not the book. I never saw the movie.)

As far as the theme, how is it any more limited than any other theme? By which I mean, it's only limited by your (the writer's) imagination. One might say the same about any horror theme. Or sci-fi theme. Or fantasy theme. By themselves, at first blush, they all seem limiting.

I think vampires make for interesting antagonists. Immortal. Superstrong. Superfast. Perfect killing machines with some weaknesses to be exploited.

You might say the same for werewolves, but I've read some novels with interesting takes on it.

Zombies are back in vogue.

Guess I don't have a problem with a writer using "old standbys" if he has the imagination and writing skill to look at it in fresh and different ways.

I think vampires are merely a conveniant metaphor for something else entirely.

(shameless self-promotion)
for an example of precisely what I mean, refer to page 10 of the current issue of dark recesses before their next issue comes out.

www.darkrecesses.com, download the pdf, and look on page 10

Personally, I am so unbelievably bored with vampires that I would never, ever pick up a vampire novel by an unknown writer. You couldn't even give it to me for free. If I read any vampire stories these days, it has to be an author who's work I love so passionately that I'll buy anything they ever write, in hardcover, the moment I see it, and there's only a half-handful of those.

While I believe firmly that good writing can breathe life into any concept, no matter how hackneyed, vampires have been run so far into the ground at this point that it has to be bloody AMAZING writing to keep me from going "Ugh. Vampires AGAIN?"

Have you read my story about a pack of undead vampire elephants that terrorize a gold mine in southern africa, so the great grandson of Van Helsing, who happens to be a big-game hunter, is brought in to stop them?

Of course, no one realizes that he's the alpha vampire, and it was all a plot by him to take over the gold mine. That leaves only beautiful anthropology student Keira Kowalski and her cowardly guide Shaggibu to stop him AND the elephants with the blood-red tusks.

Me, I'm more into demons...

karo.ambrose said:

in general terms, the whole idea of the classic vampire model has been done to death. how long have we been using the werewolf/vampire/zombie formula? i'm not saying i don't dig the horror genre because any genre can produce good reads, but i for one will not buy a book that has the words werewolf/vampire/zombie on the jacket.

btw... i am not knocking on anyone who writes these types of stories. all i am saying is that if you can take this formula and write a good story out of it, well, hats off to you my friend.

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Agreed that it can be a chore to read these stories, but as a self-proclaimed horrorphile, I also agree that the potential for quality writing in the horror/paranormal/dark speculative fiction arena is more than possible.

I run Dark Recesses Press, and the quality of work we see jumps with every issue. I am always pleased to see how many talented writers are in tune with their 'dark side'.

Every type of fiction has a formula. A truly 'new' idea is a difficult thing to find. What makes a work fresh, is the quality of writing and the way the author spins the tale. So while vampires, werewolves and zombies may not be your thing, it certainly doesn't mean that a good story can't be built around them. Badducky up there proved that with his work "I Am Nature" in our latest issue. It is a far cry from the typical vampire tale.

As with any genre, horror writers get a lot of unwarranted flack for not being 'real' writers and I find that disturbing in it's own right.

Most horror is about the struggle between the good and evil. It is often dramatic and can force a reader to look inside themselves at what they would do in such situations. The stories speak of the human condition and often reflect the fears facing our society at any given time. Each of the standard creatures mentioned above came about in reaction to fears of the time.

Bailey

I think vampires appeal to us because deep down we all want to be what they are..or have I should say. We want eternal life so the ones around us would never die, where a husband wouldn't lose his wife to liver failure. We want the perfect health where no one around us would get sick and they could live out their lives without fear. And we also want the sexual alure that comes with them.

They have everything that we want. I know I would have given up daylight and broken into the Red Cross nightly if I could have kept my wife alive.

Yeah, I agree with the eternal life thing. Those vampires just have so much knowledge, pent up regret from whatever, and all the ancient secrets most people don't know cuz they weren't there. New vampires suck.

John61480 said:

...vampires suck.

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Ba-dum-bump. Thanks folks, we'll be here all week.

...Makes me wonder, though: why hasn't Hoover dubbed a model "The Vlad"?

Incidentally, one thing I did very intentionally was ignoring the word "Vampire" entirely.

Also, like anything, bad writing is bad writing. If you write horror well, it won't matter if you have werewolves, vampires, and zombies disco-dancing with Shaft.

It isn't what you do, in horror, so much as how you do it. Everything has the potential to be scary. However, vampire as a term is shorthand for a particular breed of mythological figure. The term is an adjective more than it is a noun. It's descriptive of one particular breed of monster. This one sucks blood (a symbolic act that reaches back at least as far as the laws if Moses against ingesting the life fluids of animals).

Instead of thinking in terms of a noun "vampire", think about an adjective vampire to understand what's realy going on. It isn't about teeth and a cape, but about a nightmare of blood ingestion.

The words like "werewolf" and "vampire" and "troll" and "dwarf" are merely an artistic shorthand. Ultimately, each individual artist's take on the creature is going to be different. The words are not nouns, but adjectives.

If you are unsatisfied with this particular subset of monstrous literature, find something else to read.

Or, write something better.

And I don't mean that to sound snide and dismissive. Just to be truthful. If you don't like it, don't read it. I don't complain about the prevalence of petticoats an arranged marriages in romance novels, because I choose to read something else.

badducky said:

...If you write horror well, it won't matter if you have werewolves, vampires, and zombies disco-dancing with Shaft...

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Actually, that would be pretty entertaining. Sorta like "Thriller" but not as creepy.

badducky said:

Instead of thinking in terms of a noun "vampire", think about an adjective vampire to understand what's realy going on. It isn't about teeth and a cape, but about a nightmare of blood ingestion.

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It certainly can be. It can be taken on several levels, including symbolism – imagine the vampire as metaphor for IRS auditor. OTOH, just as a cigar is sometimes just a cigar, sometimes a blood-sucking undead con artist is just a blood-sucking undead con artist. It can be fun to explore the "what if" dynamics rather than claim some patina of literary artifice.

badducky said:

The words like "werewolf" and "vampire" and "troll" and "dwarf" are merely an artistic shorthand. Ultimately, each individual artist's take on the creature is going to be different. The words are not nouns, but adjectives.

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Painfully true. Keebler elves do not equal Tolkein elves.

badducky said:

If you are unsatisfied with this particular subset of monstrous literature, find something else to read.

Or, write something better.

And I don't mean that to sound snide and dismissive. Just to be truthful. If you don't like it, don't read it. I don't complain about the prevalence of petticoats an arranged marriages in romance novels, because I choose to read something else.

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I've heard there are no shortage of vampires in romance novels either...

I like vampire stories because there are thousands of ways than an author can use the old cliches and turn them around. Any successful series as its own mythology that works extremely well for the stories that author wants to tell.

Buffy, the Vampire Slayer and the Anne Rice novels come to mind first. Yes, one is a series, but it still turns conventions on their collective heads.

Sunlight, garlic, crosses, souls, immortality, shapeshifting, perma-fangs, strength and speed....all things that can be tweaked by a good, creative writer.

my vampire novel, as such, isn't really about vampires. The bad guy *is* a vampire, but he's not the main character.

Wow.
There are points on both sides of the fence and I have to admit, those who are bored with vampires scare me.
After all, I am a newbie at this writing a novel thing and I hope people will read and like it.
Why did I choose vampires?

Basically, I watched a vampire movie and could not get a shapeless idea out of my head. I thought it was the movie or one of the concepts in it, but it was something more.
As I pulled at it and goofed with it, my protagonist popped into my head.
She was fully formed. Her red curls, impish smile, intelligent mind and deep compassion were all so strong I could not do anything but write her.
She is a 10-year-old looking three hundred-year-old vampire girl.
Is she cliche? I don’t think so but I’m too close. She inspired me to go the young adult fantasy saga route and two years later it’s huge, finished and trying for success.

I took all the trappings and (I hope) did them in an interesting way. I’d love to explain but I’m terribly paranoid about faceless people stealing it.

So I don’t know if it’s just another of the same. The good guys are vampire children. The bad guys are vampires, werewolves and a vampire hunter. We’ve seen that before but again, I hope it will be entertaining enough for people. Those who read the words “vampires” on the back cover and go “Uggh, again” are welcome to pick up a dragon or elf book.

I do enjoy using the immortality, shape shifting, mesmerizing, enhanced strength, speed, reflexes and senses as well as the blood cravings, and applying all of that to a child’s perspective. I have no clue if it’s an original spin. I think it is, but I’m not everyone else.

Jack_Roberts said:

Those who read the words “vampires” on the back cover and go “Uggh, again” are welcome to pick up a dragon or elf book.

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There are also those people who look at another dragon or elf book and go, "Ugh, again?"

That's the point, chaostitan.

Btw, who would win in a mud wrestle bout? Legolas or Dobbie?

Jack_Roberts said:

Btw, who would win in a mud wrestle bout? Legolas or Dobbie?

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My money is on Legolas.

If elves can walk on snow, mud probably won't stick. So he'd have an advantage.

Did you ever recall seeing Legolas dirty, muddy, bloody or even tired in any of the films?

Can't one say the same thing about anything? If you have a new take, why not? There were wizarding stories before Harry Potter. I already didn't care for Vampire books either, but then I tried Anne Rice and got hooked. Although, again, I say no more, but who knows...

If 1% of the reading public love your book, it will be the runaway bestseller of the year.

badducky said:

If 1% of the reading public love your book, it will be the runaway bestseller of the year.

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Thats all I can hope for!

When I invited submissions for a teen writing contest I expected lots of very bad vampire stories. Imagine my surprise when I got only one vampire in the lot.

Then imagine the surprise when it turned out to be new, fresh, imaginative and made me - not a vampire fan at all - decide it simply had to be the lead story in the ensuing anthology.

There's hope yet!

chaostitan said:

Did you ever recall seeing Legolas dirty, muddy, bloody or even tired in any of the films?

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No, but the movies won my heart forever from the bit in the opening sequence when the elvish army is standing around covered in grime from head to toe, and Elrond looks like he's been dragged through a pigpen backwards.