Nonfiction - tired as hell.... what next?

Plix · Sep 11, 2006

Been awhile since my last post.

Whon't go into the whole e-book or self-publishing thing, but I actually started work on a nonfiction book that I wanted to be released FOR REAL.

Anyway, reality is pretty hard when it comes to new authors, and I've been bent over more times than a hooker on Sunset Boulevard, with all the rejections I've gotten from both publishers and agents.
But I'm not whining ... I'm just pissed at reality.

So you might be wondering, "Why the FRICK* is he posting and what the FRICK* is this thread about? Why am I wasting 8 minutes of my life on this?"

Well, it's simple. I need to let of some gas ... not steam...but A-S-S-gas on the level of luck required and contacts needed.

So here's the actual deal and WHY I feel surprised that I havn't scored any intereset besides the usual "Please send your manuscript and I will return with an answer witing 6 weeks" and finish it off with a rejection.

I decided to write a non-fiction health and diet book, based on nudemodels from all over the world. Since they look so damn sexy and people only go on diets based on vanity anyway, I decided to contact a bunch of popular Playboy and nude models and interview them.
I then got an interview with the best heart surgeon in New York who has also appered on Oprah Winfrey and got him to answer my questions etc. for my book. So I actually have some pretty well-known people answering my strange and direct questions in the book. PLUS it's a damn cool and alternative approach to diet books.

To top things off I hire a kick-*** flash designer to make a promotion website www.themodelsdiet.com to show off the models and tell a bit about the project.

But STILL i've been going NO WHERE fast - and with a new full-time job, I feel like all motivation is lost. So what might I be doing wrong and how to people KEEP motivated??? I've spent plenty money on the project and REFUSE to throw it all in the toilet and flush it out.

So .... you got this far and still don't know what the hell it's all about? Ne neither ... as I said - I needed to let off some gas!

Thanks!

* Original Poster may have used slightly different words.

underthecity · Sep 11, 2006

Well, Plix, it doesn't look like you're asking for advice except on how to keep yourself motivated enough to keep querying.

I have been there (not with nude models, durnit), and I have done that. In my case, I queried a small number of publishers for my first book until I later accidentally stumbled across the perfect publisher for it.

Here's how to motivate yourself: visit your local big bookstore and gaze at all the other diet books on the shelf, and keep telling yourself how your book is so much better than all those others already published. Low carb diet? Who needs it? Unhealthy anyway. South Beach diet? Yeah, right.

Once you've gotten your boost from doing that, write down the names of all the publishers who published all those other diet books and look them up in Writers Market 2007. Query all them.

Trouble with your query letter? Post it on AW in the Share Your Work forum under Query Letter Critique.

Keep submitting. It sounds like an awesome diet book.

allen

Sassenach · Sep 11, 2006

Maybe it's not a very good idea. While there is a definite market for nude photos of beautiful women, is anyone interested in the diet secrets of genetic aberrations? Other than the nude gimmick, what's your hook?

Silver King · Sep 11, 2006

Plix said:
people only go on diets based on vanity anyway

That might be stretching things a little, Plix.

You've let off more than just "gas" in your post. And it seems as if you blew your load early, so to speak, and now you can't get it up again to see the project through. Sorry I can't help, but that's an ailment that might take you well beyond AW for a cure.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 11, 2006

Book

What is it that makes you an expert on diets, and why should publishers expect readers to listen to you? What is it you want to give readers that they can't find elsewhere? And nude models are unlikely to be it. Or healthy.
Not many people out there are going to want to follow health & diet advice form Playboy centerfolds. They may be thin, but so's a fence post.

I can only tell you that as an editor, there's nothing about interviews with nude models, or an interview with a single heart surgeon, that would make me want to risk many thousands of dollars publishing a Health & DIET book.

You don't need luck, contacts, or money. You need 1. An idea that makes publishers go WOW! 2. Credentials to back up what you have to say. 3. Good writing from proposal to finished product.

I hope you have these three things, but not to be disappointing, and I could certainly be wrong, but I see nothing at all here that would make an agent or publisher want such a book for the health & diet field.

Lauri B · Sep 12, 2006

Plix said:
I decided to write a non-fiction health and diet book, based on nudemodels from all over the world. Since they look so damn sexy and people only go on diets based on vanity anyway, I decided to contact a bunch of popular Playboy and nude models and interview them.
I then got an interview with the best heart surgeon in New York who has also appered on Oprah Winfrey and got him to answer my questions etc. for my book. So I actually have some pretty well-known people answering my strange and direct questions in the book. PLUS it's a damn cool and alternative approach to diet books.

To top things off I hire a kick-*** flash designer to make a promotion website www.themodelsdiet.com to show off the models and tell a bit about the project.

But STILL i've been going NO WHERE fast!

Plix, look at what you have here: interviews with Playboy bunnies. One expert who has answered your questions. A website. Why on earth would a publisher want to publish a book written by you about dieting when there is NO information about nutrition, you have no expertise in the field, you have no expert on nutrition or dieting collaborating with you, the Playboy bunnies aren't exactly examples of natural health, and a website has absolutely no relevance to publishing decisions. I'm not sure why you are so frustrated by the process here. What publishers are telling you is that your book isn't going to work for them in its current form and format. What part of that isn't clear? Revise your idea--get an expert in nutrition to be your co-author. Find a better hook than "these nude models are hot--this is what they eat." Find someone other than a heart surgeon (I'm not sure why a heart surgeon would be qualified to contribute to a diet book).
I have absolutely no idea why you spent money on a website to try to sell in your book. I have seen dozens of threads on this topic on AW, and in all of them the consensus is that a web site does NOT impress publishers. They are impressed by a solid idea, a good manuscript, and an author who knows what he is talking about.

Good luck to you--let us know what you decide to do.

mrsrgm · Sep 12, 2006

Um, Guys. I know PLENTY of women who would be interested in a diet book with Bunnies. While I, personally, believe in health and nutrition, most of the women that I know who are overweight only want to be SKINNY. They could care less about their health if they look good - and Playmates look good. A Playmate Diet book would work, in my humble woman's opinion. I don't know about the rest of it....

smallthunder · Sep 12, 2006

Two paths you could take

Never underestimate the desperation of a would-be dieter ("Hey, I can go from 'pudge' to sex siren with just one book!)... nor the brainlessness of some male partners ("Honey, I've got you something to help you lose weight...")

The bottom line (literally & figuratively) is: no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

So, no -- I certainly would not find that book credible if I were looking to loses weight -- but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't sell. And surely there is a publishing house out there that caters to the "lose weight while you sleep!" school of dieters, no?

It may not be the biggest/most famous publishing house in the US, but I'm sure it exists.

So, Plix, my advice would be NOT to go into a bookstore and examine any/all diet books on the shelves.

I suggest you either:

1. look for the kind-of-wacky diet books -- you know, "The Grapefruit Diet" sort -- and contact those publishers.

2. give up trying to make it a SERIOUS diet book, and re-package it as humor -- check out those satirical self-help books (e.g. "101 Uses for a Dead Cat" type of books),

Good luck --

Bamponang · Sep 12, 2006

smallthunder said:
give up trying to make it a SERIOUS diet book, and re-package it as humor -- check out those satirical self-help books (e.g. "101 Uses for a Dead Cat" type of books)

Plix · Sep 12, 2006

Just a quick reply:

1) No one said it should be a hardcore SERIOUS dietbook, because my main point is that you don't need to be a damn expert on nutrition in order to get a great body and the more humor the better - 'cause I don't mind taking a piss on the diet and fitness world - I've been in it for years! And people always talk about nude models being air-heads, but hey - they sure as hell know their way around nutrition, I guarantee you that!!

2) I studied nutrition&healthcare science, so I do know a bit. But better yet, my body looks kindda good itself, so who would you rather listen to advice from? A grumpy old doctor or a fit sexy guy like myself? (LOL...go easy on me... you know how it is) Or better yet, a grumpy old female author, that promotes all-out veggies and fruit or listen to what the Bunnies have to say?

I mean .... ok, you might twist the table and say "Who would want to listen to a young kid that wanks of on the internet, hoping for a publishing deal"

3) I know that it's form isn't attracting the publishers. What's frustraiting is finding wacky dietbooks in the stores, contacting the publishers who released it, and getting the rejections!

4) People would read it, because sexiness sells, health and vanity is IN. This book isn't for the BMI +200 people, but for all the Gucci girls on their cheerleading squad and the girls that always sits in the corner wishing she had the confidence like all "the pretty girls".

5) A completely new survey from The Institute Of Journalism, Media and Communication at Stockholm’s University, shows that the most trendy and popular thing for young teens and adults is getting to look like exotic, bikini and lingerie models that we see in Playboy and other men’s magazines.

6) What step is next? I mean, I've already queried most publishers that has to do with diet books etc., and don't know where more to look really?

I'll try to find time and post my query letter, maybe that needs some refreshing. And I've decided to send out via snail mail now - eventhough it's across the Atlantic. I know I'm gonna make, but time is taking me down....

EDIT: NOMAD, don't worry. I'll keep the whole world updated on what goes up or down with my project. Hell, I'll even send you a damn beer if I strike a deal. (Now how's that for HEALTHY ADVICE!!)

Lauri B · Sep 12, 2006

Plix, good luck to you! I'd love that beer.
Actually, I just had a thought: rather than pitching the publishers who usually do the hard-core diet books (Rodale, McGraw-Hill, Health Communications, etc.), why not pitch it to publishers who are really open to quirky books? Chronicle, Quirk, Andrews & McMeel--those folks do some pretty out-there books, and you never know what might appeal to them.

mrsrgm · Sep 13, 2006

i want a beer

Jamesaritchie · Sep 13, 2006

Plix said:
Just a quick reply:

1) No one said it should be a hardcore SERIOUS dietbook, because my main point is that you don't need to be a damn expert on nutrition in order to get a great body and the more humor the better - 'cause I don't mind taking a piss on the diet and fitness world - I've been in it for years! And people always talk about nude models being air-heads, but hey - they sure as hell know their way around nutrition, I guarantee you that!!

2) I studied nutrition&healthcare science, so I do know a bit. But better yet, my body looks kindda good itself, so who would you rather listen to advice from? A grumpy old doctor or a fit sexy guy like myself? (LOL...go easy on me... you know how it is) Or better yet, a grumpy old female author, that promotes all-out veggies and fruit or listen to what the Bunnies have to say? I mean .... ok, you might twist the table and say "Who would want to listen to a young kid that wanks of on the internet, hoping for a publishing deal"

3) I know that it's form isn't attracting the publishers. What's frustraiting is finding wacky dietbooks in the stores, contacting the publishers who released it, and getting the rejections!

4) People would read it, because sexiness sells, health and vanity is IN. This book isn't for the BMI +200 people, but for all the Gucci girls on their cheerleading squad and the girls that always sits in the corner wishing she had the confidence like all "the pretty girls".

5) A completely new survey from The Institute Of Journalism, Media and Communication at Stockholm’s University, shows that the most trendy and popular thing for young teens and adults is getting to look like exotic, bikini and lingerie models that we see in Playboy and other men’s magazines.

6) What step is next? I mean, I've already queried most publishers that has to do with diet books etc., and don't know where more to look really?

I'll try to find time and post my query letter, maybe that needs some refreshing. And I've decided to send out via snail mail now - eventhough it's across the Atlantic. I know I'm gonna make, but time is taking me down....

EDIT: NOMAD, don't worry. I'll keep the whole world updated on what goes up or down with my project. Hell, I'll even send you a damn beer if I strike a deal. (Now how's that for HEALTHY ADVICE!!)

Well, no. Nude models almost never know their way around nutrition. Being skinny is often a sign of bad nutrition, anarexia, poor health. Many of the nude models out there are literally killing themselves in the way they eat, exercise, etc. As an editor, this alone would scare the bejeebers out of me.

As for who I'd rather listen to, a grumpy old doctor or a sexy guy like you, the answer is the grumpy old doctor every time. But I'd rather not listen to either of you. I want someone who's both of you rolled into one. Unless you'rre already famous in one way or another, then in all honesty, you aren't the guy I want writing the book.

Honestly, I don't think people would read the book. And there's nothing sexy about nude models talking about anything. If you want sexy, you'd better have a LOT of photos of said nude models. No one thinks a PLayboy bunny is sexy because of what she has to say. Then you might sell a fair numbe rof copies to men, but they won't be reading teh words.

I think you're also running into another problem. Yes, the latest trend is for teenagers to want to look like the scantily clad models and Playboy bunnies. But you're missing the part where everyone says this is a horrible thing, is extremely unhealthy, and a really, really stupid thing for teens to want. No one I know wants to encourage this trend. Especially not adults.

The audience you're aiming at just isn't large enough, and no responsible publisher isn't going to release a book aimed at teens that has nude models and an unhealthy lifestyle as the focus. At the very least, I think you have to completely eliminate the nude models. This kills your book, and your target audience, instantly.

Runway models, swimsuit models, maybe. But you're killing yourself with the nude models. And even then you're going to have to show that the way these women stay thin is healthy.

In all honestly, this sounds like a project that made the cash register go off in your mind, rather than a project that is actually wanted and needed in the real world marketplace. It doesn't sound like you're trying to help teenagers, it sounds like you're trying to make money off one of the worst and most dangerous trends to come along in years.

ATP · Sep 13, 2006

Hmmm...the one thing that struck a note with me was that you apparently have run out of publishers you can approach.

From this casual observer, who has neither published a NF book nor writing one - as has been suggested, you might then 'reformulate', or with James' advice as guide, undertake (additional) research. I don't know if you know, but Jenna Glatzer has pasted a sticky concerning how to go about non-fiction publishing.

smallthunder · Sep 13, 2006

Plix said:
Just a quick reply:

EDIT: NOMAD, don't worry. I'll keep the whole world updated on what goes up or down with my project. Hell, I'll even send you a damn beer if I strike a deal. (Now how's that for HEALTHY ADVICE!!)

Hey, hey hey! I wanna beer, too!

Since we're talking 'bout a diet book, should we make that "a lite beer"?

(only kidding)
(about the lite beer, that is)
(lite beer -- yuck!)

Plix · Sep 16, 2006

Got the query out at: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41341

MOON GODDESS · Sep 19, 2006

Dieting

Plix, I'm impressed with the people you have on board so far.
What were the reasons, if they were given, why the publishers rejected your idea?
Did you include the website in the query?
There are probably publishers out there that deal with multiple topics/genres, like dieting and sexuality, or people and well-being, which might be more open to you, than your standard "how to lose weight" publishers.
I never had anyone else research/query publishers for me, but maybe hiring someone freelance to do just that, might keep the ball rolling, since working full-time and writing can be draining.
Lastly, I think the thing that gets books published, aside from great writing, is perseverence. Since it seems like you don't want to abandon the idea and have spent money on it, just keep plugging it, realizing that being ruthless or stressed or expecting it to sell by x month, might be unrealistic. Networking with local "arts" groups might be another option. Those are just my opinions and how I would approach the matter, but I'm no expert by any means.

Plix · Sep 25, 2006

Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback Moon goddes!
I'm actually also pretty proud of the amount of people I've got featured in the book already and they are all top of the line so to say. Playmate of the year, FHM model of the year etc., so I kindda think I got some of the best girls lined up from each area.
Thank god for SKYPE!

I've decided to contact more publishers because I goddamnit refuse to give up on this project and as a corny addition I just got a bill from the website company for 100 bucks, to keep my website going for yet another year. So YES, you damn right I whon't give up on this, eventhough I also believe that I'm running out of publishers.

HOWEVER - I'm gonna start a new thread which can be found here > http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=820400#post820400 <
since I might consider taking the same footsteps as "Rebecca Leah De Vaney" who write a book called "The Supermodel Diet" but got it released at a publisher called "Paper Doll Publishing" in (June 2004)

??? Any feedback on that perhaps? Is it pod / vanity publishing or what ever it's called? 'cause that whon't make my pockets boom, that's a fact!

Nonfiction - tired as hell.... what next?

Plix

underthecity

Finestkind

Sassenach

5 W's & an H

Silver King

Megalops Erectus

Jamesaritchie

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

mrsrgm

smallthunder

Ruled by Dachshunds

Bamponang

Plix

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

mrsrgm

Jamesaritchie

ATP

What happened to my LIFE?!

smallthunder

Ruled by Dachshunds

Plix

MOON GODDESS

Plix