Should poets wanting feedback use the Poetry Critique board?

Is one side of the argument that it should be put up on the forum to be looked and ruminated over without commentary? That'd look weird. 'Ooos' and 'Ahhhs' acceptable, but 'ehs' aren't?

The only way I could see that working is for you, Mr. Moderator, to lock each poem in its own thread as their posted. Otherwise, it seems unenforcable.

Now I'm gonna have to go find that lively discussion.

ETA - Sorry, I had to vote 'other'. I've thought of the 'Poetry Critique' board as a place force WIP, for those who like that sort of input en route, and a place to preview works earmarked for submission. So says me, for what it's worth.

I put "Other." My feeling is that wherever you post a poem, you're welcoming feedback, whether in the Poetry Forum, or the Critique thread. But the Critique thread is where I post poems that I'm submitting for publication.

LOL, sorry Rob! Guess I misunderstood you.
Let me try again...

Should poets wanting feedback use the Poetry Critique board? Yes, but I was under the impression that this was particularly for those poems one might also want to consider for publication.

And, I think whether posted in the Crit board or the Poetry Forum, one should welcome feedback. (If no feedback is desired, then why post?) So that if you specifically don't want feedback, you ought to mention that with the post.

I'm confused. Is this poll just about the critique forum? The critique forum is where you put stuff that you specifically want critiqued, is it not? This top forum was supposed to be more general wasn't it?

Well anyway.

Here's my two cents:

The top forum (eg. this one) is for discussion and posting alike. People who post their work here should not expect con crit (unless they ask), but neither should they expect not to get it (unless they ask). Basically, people can give a pat on the back, be constructive, ask questions, start a discussion about the poem etc, or just move on. -All without anyone being offended.

On the other hand, people who feel that anything but con crit is a waste of time or wish to have an extensive amount of help with their piece probably should not post their work in the general forum, but rather in the one for pure critique (the lower, password protected one).

Thus we should all be happy.

Excuse me if I'm confused but doesn't Poetry Critique Board imply that someone wants to be critiqued?

Yes, Poetry Game is in there, too, but there isn't a place to critique in the game because it will mess up the queue. I like Poetry Game being in the closed forum because that's where I usually hang out and someday I might want to use one of those for something.

If I wanted to be critiqued, I'd go to the Critique board. But maybe I'm just confused.

::::move along now, nothing here to see, just another looney mangalating her English:::

poetinahat said:

This poll is a failure. I'll rewrite and rehang.

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Your head in shame? Lol! Not to worry.

I think the system as is works pretty well. Any overhaul is going to be awfully confusing. Hopefully this poll and the discussion will remind people to indicate if they are rabid for feedback, afraid of it or indifferent to it.

Otherwise, all's fair in love and poetry.

I guess my confusion comes from thinking, 'Why would anyone want something critiqued if they weren't planning on submitting it?'

I mean I wouldn't, but maybe other people would.

'Yes, it's nice; no it's not nice' but why if it's just going back in the drawer?

Hi Poet

The true crux of the matter is not the criticism received in either place but that the main forum may be considered by magazine publishers like "Poetry Magazine" as qualifying anything posted there as previously published, whereas the Critique area is password protected and is thus considered by "Poetry", and others, as simply being a "Workshop", and not independent publication.

It's a silly way of looking at things but it is a concept that seems to be spreading to more and more Magazine Publishers that demand 1st Publication Rights.

To be honest, the Poems I have posted in the Critique section were posted there for that reason, because they are "new" and I wanted to keep my options open for publication.

Beyond that, I, for one, have no objections to constructive comments, regardless of where I post them, because I weigh them according to my own goals and what I know of the background of the person posting the Critique, and I see no reason why anyone should have a problem with any well intended Critique in either Forum.

JRH

P.S. Congrats on you new position. You seem to be fitting into it quite naturally.

I'm with PB. I always, always want critiques, but if I put it in the Poetry Crits section it's something that I want to submit and really want to work on. Main board, i just want to get better at poetry in general.

Hi Again Poet,

This thread is NOT a failure. It may not have brought the exact results you were looking for but it has triggered an interesting and informative discussion which pretty much has laid out the parameters of the underlying principles and outlined everyone's different views and expectations, far more than a simple poll would have done, and that's not a bad thing.

Keep up the good work.

JRH

poetinahat said:

Pat and I thought Poetry Critique was meant for WIP -- to protect publishing rights by hiding work from the internet.

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That's what I always thought. I like that concept. To me that along with a general open critique forum and a forum for posting just to share is what most people are looking for--maybe? Since I'm fairly new at posting poetry, perhaps I'm not totally clear either.

Great poll!
When I first came to this forum I took things literally and thought the critique section was where one would post poems they wanted feedback on and the other main poetry forum just for sharing unless someone asked specifically for feedback. I was hesitant to offer feedback to poems posted there (the reg section). I eventually figured out that wasn't the intention but still hesitated to offer feedback unless asked or if I knew the poet posting consitantly wanted it.
As for the poll, I'm voting for option one (but if there's a tie I can be swayed with chocolate,.. dark please .)
I really think if someone wants suggestions (on the main board) they should ask for them rather than expecting them, but also shouldn't get bent if they get them without asking. (did that make sense?) It should be clearly stated that they may get feedback when they post. Perhaps if they just want to share something, they can link to it rather than post it? (just brainstorming)
Sometimes a member will post something they have already published, maybe years ago, and I would asssume that's really just for sharing because it seems a mute point to get crit unless there's something they want to improve on or want a new perspective.(but I've seen people critique these poems too) Then they should ask for just that. Or open it for discussion rather than critique? (there is a difference, yes?) But I can't see someone saying, 'here's my published poem, please don't crit, just pat me on the back.' I guess perhaps they could also just link to their poem if they're just sharing their accomplishment.
New members may not be ready for the kind of critique that can be given here and may not be clear (like I wasn't) about where to post or which poems to comment on. These things just need to be more clearly stated, whatever the contention is.
As for the critique section, I understand the original intention is for publication but some of us may never gather the ummph to get that far, but may still want the critique and the extra password protection offered there.

If I post something in Poetry Critique, I think it needs a lot of work.
But if I post something in the general Poetry board, It's something that I'm more or less satisfied with, but I want peoples opinions on it.

Ditto what Godfather said.

poetinahat said:

Another twisted thought occurred to me yesterday: What if people wanted to use the Poetry Forum to claim that they were "published"? Perversely, it would be true in one respect. If posting on the open Forum means that First Rights no longer apply, then that would have to meant that some houses would consider a poet as Published,

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I didn't know for a long time that something was considered "published" just by posting something in a forum. Or posting on a web site, and that work couldn't be sold. But, truthfully? I wouldn't consider my work "published" in the sense of using it as a credit. That seems a little ridiculous.

Rob, you're right: I did set up the critique sub-board specifically so people would have a better case for saying the works haven't been published. (Just about all publications don't mind if work has been workshopped on a password-protected critique board, but some mind if work is posted on a board that can be found on search engines.) So to me, I was setting up that board for people who plan to submit those works, and leaving the main board for everything else (general discussion, games, poems that aren't meant for publication, etc.).

I've rarely posted poetry, but when I have, normally I do it in the main section because I'm not concerned about publication rights. I don't typically submit my poetry anywhere, but that doesn't mean I don't care about it... I'm interested in feedback normally for my own purposes (so I can improve, so I can get better clarity on a subject, so I can test to see if people understand what I'm trying to convey, etc.). I write poetry sometimes as gifts for people, too, and it has to be good for it to be a good gift!

But back to your point--

I think it might not be a bad idea to put all the poetry for critique onto the crit board, and leave the main board solely for general discussion about poetry, games, markets, contests, etc. I'll stay neutral and go with whatever you guys decide!

I am going to steer clear of this vote as I will not be posting any more poetry here. I will, however, remain an avid poster in the poetry forum. It's my favorite forum here on AW.

Man, what a discussion!

I have been thinking on some points made last night (and this morning). JennaGlatzer has clarified the intentions of the original Poetry Critique forum, so that helps in some understanding of the evolution of the system.

I have become a bit more attached to the idea of a Poetry Sharing forum being created as a sister to the Poetry Critique forum, and this top level being saved for games, information, discussion, and general poetry topics (like exploration of forms, etc). However, I don't know if it is feasible to shift an entire board posting habits. And I do not think it is feasible to stop critting in a Poetry Sharing forum (not without feeling like a big meanie). But, perhaps with the forums intentions redefined in the subtext, they will evolve to a natural balance.

This will probably be sitting on the back of my mind for a bit more yet, so keep up the great discussion.



-Michelle

KTC said:

I will not be posting any more poetry here.

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I can't tell you how sad that makes me. Your poetry, whether it meant anything to you or not, meant a great deal to me, and I was consistently wowed by the wordplay and images you created.

I will miss your poetry. I am grateful I will not have to miss you as well.

I voted for #2 because I thought that's how it worked and it worked well. I ditto Unique's post as a comment. I always post a poem with the thought that it may be published, so I like the password protection.
Interesting to see the growth of new ideas around here. It means we are moving and shaking.
Paint