Dealing with writers who talk more than write

Bubastes · Sep 4, 2006

My cousin says she wants to write a novel. She spends lots of time telling me about the world she's created, possible plot twists, etc. She hasn't written a single word, but says that she will do it "when she has the time." She equates an idea for a novel with the novel itself.

As we know, that's not the case at all. Still, I feel like she's pooh-poohing my own hard work (she has this weird attitude about artists -- she thinks they're all flakes with too much time on their hands or with rich parents), especially when she looks at a film or book and says, "I could do that, but I have to make a real living" or thinks that it shouldn't take years to write a book.

Yes, I know talkers talk and writers write, but how would you handle someone like this without getting irritated? I'm crawling along on my writing projects (one sentence at a time...) and for some reason her comments just bug me, even though I know I shouldn't take them personally.

Thanks for any advice you have!

Bufty · Sep 4, 2006

Tell her to put up or shut up. She's all mouth by the sound of it.

veinglory · Sep 4, 2006

Restraint is the answer with the occassional well timed response like: "I'll value your opinion on novel writing a whole lot more when you've actually written one."

NeuroFizz · Sep 4, 2006

This takes me back to high school, and all the guys who bragged about their sexual conquests. My opinion at the time, which is unchanged, is people who talk about it the most are probably the ones who are not getting it. She is not a writer until words appear on paper. Dreamers dream and writers write. When dreamers are finally able to write, stand back and hold on for dear life. Challenge her to that effect. When stated in positive terms, a challenge can motivate a foot dragger, just as it can expose a poser.

Perks · Sep 4, 2006

I'd tell her not one thing. The less she writes, that's one less hurdle in the slush pile. No skin off my nose (or yours) whatsoever.

scarletpeaches · Sep 4, 2006

A writer who talks more than she writes isn't a writer. She's a talker.

Bufty · Sep 4, 2006

And talking out of the wrong orifice, methinks, Meow. :Hug2:

scarletpeaches said:
A writer who talks more than she writes isn't a writer. She's a talker.

cree · Sep 4, 2006

MeowGirl said:
She equates an idea for a novel with the novel itself.

A

Foolish, foolish girl.

Tell her you're really interested, but you want to hold off on the ongoing debate until she has something written for you to look at: a sample chapter, an outline even...tell her YOU need this because her ideas are so complex you can't keep track of a plot outline that's only in discussion form, and you're getting lost. Everytime she brings it up, say, "wait, who's your main character again? what's the setting? I'm so confused, I can't have this discussion until I see something written, that's just how my brain works." (self-effacing tone helps too). Eventually she'll tire of having to keep reminding you of previously-held discussions, and she'll either write (if she's serious)....or leave you alone because you're just too thick-headed to memorize the facets of her unwritten novel.

scribbler1382 · Sep 4, 2006

Ask her why she thinks she's able to do this when she never has. Forcing her to explain herself everytime she brings the subject up may just keep her from bringing it up.

seun · Sep 4, 2006

I have a cousin who is similar. He's a good one for telling me about a course he signed up to over a year ago, how great it is, how they let you work at your own speed...

About six months ago, I gave up asking him what he's writing. He wasn't. He was talking about it.

DeborahM · Sep 4, 2006

veinglory said:
Restraint is the answer with the occassional well timed response like: "I'll value your opinion on novel writing a whole lot more when you've actually written one."

I agree with Veinglory here and maybe go one step further...

I'll talk with you about writing when you're half-finished with your novel.

Bubastes · Sep 4, 2006

Knowing her, I can say "I'll talk about writing with you when you're finished with your outline" and not hear about her novel again.

blackbird · Sep 4, 2006

This is where creative writing courses can come in handy. Whatever you might want to say about them, they at least will force the dreamers and the talkers off their butts and put them in a position of actually having to produce something--on the page. Where it counts. If nothing else, it can help prod would-be wannabe writers to get past the initial fear of...well, writing.

Of course, the problem with people like your friend is that they probably would refuse to sign up for such a class, anyway. They would say, "That's for people who have the time and the money."

James D. Macdonald · Sep 4, 2006

You don't become a writer by thinking about writing. You don't become a writer by talking about writing. You become a writer by putting your butt in your chair and writing something.

badducky · Sep 4, 2006

I wouldn't restrain myself. Restraining yourself will never, ever bring about HER book.

Sometimes you have to be bastards to the people you love, because you love them.

Bufty · Sep 4, 2006

Sometimes one has to take the bull, or cow, by the horns and tell them straight what's buggin' you. If they value your friendship, they'll listen - if not you're home and dry.

Soccer Mom · Sep 4, 2006

I wouldn't start a flame war with my cousin. There's no profit to it. Doesn't sound like she's really interested in writing. She just likes to entertain herself with stories in her own head and she's insecure about people who do actually write. I would simply nod and say "Hmmm. Interesting." And change the subject. I can tell she really bugs you, but you can just come and vent to us.

We get it. BIC works. Yapping doesn't.

My $.02, Meow

earthshoes · Sep 4, 2006

I've edited the quote below for language, but it is the most powerful advice I've ever seen given and it is displayed above my computer. It is by Christopher Moore author of several best selling books, my favorite being "Lamb. The Gospel according to Biff". This is for people who like the idea of being a writer more than the actual work. I know a lot of people like this.

If you're not writing, you're not a writer. You don't have any responsibility. No one cares whether you do it. It's much easier to feel better about not doing it than it is to do it. You can not be anything you want to be. Set your sights higher. Be a world champion marathoner who doesn't run, a pirate without a ship, a Conquistador who doesn't conquer.

Now, either turn off your computer and write with a pen, or disconnect your computer from the internet, if you must write on a computer. Disconnect the wire completely. Can't do it? Go not conquer Mexico then.

You're not procrastinating. You're ***** off. You're **** off on the internet, which is **** off that feels like doing something, but isn't. The internet and television are the enemies of writing.

I've told you guys a dozen times about checking into a hotel in Big Sur to finish Lamb. I picked a hotel that had no phones in the rooms, and no televisions. Guess why? I'm not being any tougher on you than I am on myself. It never gets easy. Never.

("But Author Guy, it's a lot easier when you know that you're going to get paid for it. Get published." Yeah? Ya think? You want to know that if you "procrastinate" that they'll take your house away? That make it easier?)

Notebook. Pen. Go somewhere. Park. Cafe. Pancake House. Notebook too slow? Really? How much you get written on your computer today?

And before anyone brings it up, no one feels your pain. No one gives a ****. Especially in Ohio. You may find a few kindred souls in a forum or at a writers' conference, but most normal people have never met a writer and they think the idea that anyone could actually become a writer is just complete balderdash. You'd be much less foreign to them if you told them that you wanted to be a turtle. At least they've seen a turtle. Your family, your coworkers, your friends: don't care, think you're nuts. Especially in Ohio. (Go ahead, ask me how I know this?)

Notebook. Pen. Block of Time.

or

Paper Hat. Incan-English/English-Incan Dictionary. Map of Eldorado

Not therapy. Two words: Give Up

Dslay · Sep 4, 2006

Maybe you could nicely remind her that writing is very important to you and that to trivialize it with statements like "anyone could do it if they had the time" is insulting. Maybe compare it to something she likes to do, or her work, and ask her how she would feel if you said anyone could do it as good as her.

Sometimes people don't realize they're saying anything wrong. You have to pry their mouth open and insert the sock yourself.

Charlie

cree · Sep 4, 2006

Earthshoes, thanks for posting that. I just might print it and hang it on my office wall.

gp101 · Sep 4, 2006

Tell her that her idea is horrible and nobody would read it and no agent would bother with it. If she truly wants to write, she'll start and maybe finish her Great American Novel just to prove you wrong, and she'll have you to thank for it. If she's not meant to write, she'll probably never mention it to you again after a good verbal paddling.

Seems like a win-win... unless of course she never talks to you about anything ever again.

DeniseK · Sep 4, 2006

earthshoes said:
I've edited the quote below for language, but it is the most powerful advice I've ever seen given and it is displayed above my computer. It is by Christopher Moore author of several best selling books, my favorite being "Lamb. The Gospel according to Biff". This is for people who like the idea of being a writer more than the actual work. I know a lot of people like this.

If you're not writing, you're not a writer. You don't have any responsibility. No one cares whether you do it. It's much easier to feel better about not doing it than it is to do it. You can not be anything you want to be. Set your sights higher. Be a world champion marathoner who doesn't run, a pirate without a ship, a Conquistador who doesn't conquer.

Now, either turn off your computer and write with a pen, or disconnect your computer from the internet, if you must write on a computer. Disconnect the wire completely. Can't do it? Go not conquer Mexico then.

You're not procrastinating. You're ***** off. You're **** off on the internet, which is **** off that feels like doing something, but isn't. The internet and television are the enemies of writing.

I've told you guys a dozen times about checking into a hotel in Big Sur to finish Lamb. I picked a hotel that had no phones in the rooms, and no televisions. Guess why? I'm not being any tougher on you than I am on myself. It never gets easy. Never.

("But Author Guy, it's a lot easier when you know that you're going to get paid for it. Get published." Yeah? Ya think? You want to know that if you "procrastinate" that they'll take your house away? That make it easier?)

Notebook. Pen. Go somewhere. Park. Cafe. Pancake House. Notebook too slow? Really? How much you get written on your computer today?

And before anyone brings it up, no one feels your pain. No one gives a ****. Especially in Ohio. You may find a few kindred souls in a forum or at a writers' conference, but most normal people have never met a writer and they think the idea that anyone could actually become a writer is just complete balderdash. You'd be much less foreign to them if you told them that you wanted to be a turtle. At least they've seen a turtle. Your family, your coworkers, your friends: don't care, think you're nuts. Especially in Ohio. (Go ahead, ask me how I know this?)

Notebook. Pen. Block of Time.

or

Paper Hat. Incan-English/English-Incan Dictionary. Map of Eldorado

Not therapy. Two words: Give Up

Thank you for this earthshoes, I am keeping it.

LeeFlower · Sep 4, 2006

I'd just answer with "Yeah, and anyone could hike around the world if they had the time, too."

My brother and I get on each other's case about this all the time. For us, "show, don't Tell" means "show me the manuscript; don't tell me the plot." But that's a little different because we both actually do produce the manuscript once we stop babbling about it.

I know a lot of people who "are going to write a novel someday." If they get something out of that, bully for them. It's not my problem if they never actually write it. But I can see how hearing about it might get old after a while.

StoryG27 · Sep 4, 2006

MeowGirl said:
(she has this weird attitude about artists -- she thinks they're all flakes with too much time on their hands or with rich parents), especially when she looks at a film or book and says, "I could do that, but I have to make a real living" or thinks that it shouldn't take years to write a book.

She has such a low opinion of writers, yet wants to be one?

I'd say you're dealing with someone who has insecurity issues. If that is the case, then good luck. Dealing with insecure people rationally doesn't always work. I have no idea what you should do, but the one thing I would suggest is to, in no uncertain terms, let her know she cannot minimize your hard work and talent just to make herself feel better. As far as her talking about what she could do, would do, blah, blah, blah. You know it's all talk and so does she. She's bragging about her self assumed capabilities not anything she's actually done, so don't let that get to you.

Bubastes · Sep 4, 2006

Thanks to everyone for your input! Yeah, I think she's the classic "shadow artist" and probably insecure.

It reminds me of my favorite definition of a wet blanket: he's like a eunuch in a harem. He sees how it's done, can tell you how it's done, but can't do it himself. You're right, I shouldn't let wet blankets bother me. I should just put my head down, keep doing my work, and ignore the chatter.

Dealing with writers who talk more than write

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