Ok, after a moment of thought, I began thinking if people would begin to take figures of speech literally in the story. I sometimes worried that people would actually take them seriously. What do you guys think?
Figures of speech in Fantasy
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Both Orson Scott Card in his book "How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy" and David Gerrold in his book "Worlds of Wonder: How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy" caution about the use of idioms, figures of speech, simile and metaphor, and I'd paraphrase them but it's too late and I"m gonna go to bed.
No doubt someone else here will quote the appropriate passages before I return. G'nite, Lucy.
No doubt someone else here will quote the appropriate passages before I return. G'nite, Lucy.
I glanced through Card's book, and the one example I found was culturally specific.
"The aliens had facial structures like eyebrows, only arched in an exaggerated way, so they walked around looking like a McDonald's advertisement."
He cautions that this works in a near-future setting, when McD's is probably still around. However, the description would be very out of place in a Star Trek-like future, so far removed from today that it just jolts you out of the story.
Another, more obvious example: you wouldn't say "The hero's heart pounded like a jackhammer in his chest" if the story is high fantasy and jackhammers don't exist.
"The aliens had facial structures like eyebrows, only arched in an exaggerated way, so they walked around looking like a McDonald's advertisement."
He cautions that this works in a near-future setting, when McD's is probably still around. However, the description would be very out of place in a Star Trek-like future, so far removed from today that it just jolts you out of the story.
Another, more obvious example: you wouldn't say "The hero's heart pounded like a jackhammer in his chest" if the story is high fantasy and jackhammers don't exist.
I find I have problems with phrases like "his eyes glinted" or "his eyes sparkled". In the fantasy world I'm creating, active magic has a visible effect like a flare of light, so if I say the mage's eyes are sparkling, they might really be sparkling.
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I remember one writer (Card?) metioning a similar problem that came up in a workshop. It was a genre story that had a 'snake bus' on the first page. All the mainstream writers in the room got that it was supposed to be one of those buses with joints in it like they have at airports, but the genre writers all assumed it was literally a giant snake serving as a bus.
With the eyes, I get around that by using terms like "Mirth danced/glinted in his eyes" or "he glared at her, the torchlight shining like bonfires in his eyes." Those are crappy, five-second examples, but you get the idea.
With the eyes, I get around that by using terms like "Mirth danced/glinted in his eyes" or "he glared at her, the torchlight shining like bonfires in his eyes." Those are crappy, five-second examples, but you get the idea.
Have you ever read Beowulf? I mean, REALLY read it?
I love the words they used for things we have names for now, that they didn't have names for then.
He was the mightiest man of valor
in that same day of this our life,
stalwart and stately. A stout wave-walker
he bade make ready. Yon battle-king, said he,
far o'er the swan-road he fain would seek,
the noble monarch who needed men!
A sailor. A seaman. Sailing over known sea routes (swan roads).
I think to best avoid figures of speech, look for words that compact the meaning of other words, and then find new ways to describe that same thing.
I love the words they used for things we have names for now, that they didn't have names for then.
He was the mightiest man of valor
in that same day of this our life,
stalwart and stately. A stout wave-walker
he bade make ready. Yon battle-king, said he,
far o'er the swan-road he fain would seek,
the noble monarch who needed men!
A sailor. A seaman. Sailing over known sea routes (swan roads).
I think to best avoid figures of speech, look for words that compact the meaning of other words, and then find new ways to describe that same thing.
Oh, see now you had to start this discussion...
Being a lover of words and a world-building fanatic - the poor people on my LiveJournal friends list keep getting subjected to it - I feel the need to interject here (soapbox ready
)
I think that if you have a world somewhere, and it's fantasy, it's a given you're going to have some words that readers may or may not "get" at the start. (like, say you yourself happen to be obsessed with Japanese Martial Arts and so you have them in the story - that doesn't mean Reader X is going to comprehend what the heck you're talking about sometimes).
Best way to deal with something like that? Insert little explanatory stuff. Say you've got your Hero using a Gweorwag to fend off a bunch of maniacal pixies. Ok, nobody but you knows what the heck a Gweorwag is, so you explain, don't you, that it happens to be a kind of magic rock that if you throw it at pixies makes them all turn into stone. Ok, now people know this. (no, for the record, neither I nor any of my characters anywhere so far has a Gweorwag). Same deal with McDonalds or something like that. Gandalf goes into McDonalds on the road to Rivendell and gets "ride through". (what, you didn't know Middle Earth had 'em?) Well, by his actions, people will get what Gandalf's doing (extra cheese on that burger; got a ways to go, hurry up before the Black Riders get here, man...)
Yeah. I'd say therefore use idioms if you want to, sparingly or hugely, depending on how it might fit your story/book/whatever.
(for the record, he got his burger on time... and Elrond was pissed he didn't get any fries for him).
Being a lover of words and a world-building fanatic - the poor people on my LiveJournal friends list keep getting subjected to it - I feel the need to interject here (soapbox ready
)I think that if you have a world somewhere, and it's fantasy, it's a given you're going to have some words that readers may or may not "get" at the start. (like, say you yourself happen to be obsessed with Japanese Martial Arts and so you have them in the story - that doesn't mean Reader X is going to comprehend what the heck you're talking about sometimes).
Best way to deal with something like that? Insert little explanatory stuff. Say you've got your Hero using a Gweorwag to fend off a bunch of maniacal pixies. Ok, nobody but you knows what the heck a Gweorwag is, so you explain, don't you, that it happens to be a kind of magic rock that if you throw it at pixies makes them all turn into stone. Ok, now people know this. (no, for the record, neither I nor any of my characters anywhere so far has a Gweorwag). Same deal with McDonalds or something like that. Gandalf goes into McDonalds on the road to Rivendell and gets "ride through". (what, you didn't know Middle Earth had 'em?) Well, by his actions, people will get what Gandalf's doing (extra cheese on that burger; got a ways to go, hurry up before the Black Riders get here, man...)
Yeah. I'd say therefore use idioms if you want to, sparingly or hugely, depending on how it might fit your story/book/whatever.
(for the record, he got his burger on time...
and Elrond was pissed he didn't get any fries for him).
(This is, actually, what happened when Gandalf was unavailable during the events in Mirkwood, during the Hobbit. During a mistranslation of the Original Text in Elvish, Tolkien assumed Gandalf had said he was helping the Istari drive the Necromancer out of south Mirkwood...
He had really gone to McNecromancers, a regional fast-food joint, and the line was so long (because of the demand for their lembas-lembas with cheese), that he completely missed the episode with the Spiders and Legolas's dad being all grumpy and stuff).
(Even having recognized the mistake by the time he transcribed The LotR, Tolkien stuck to his original bad translation... not wanting to admit he'd made such a mistake).
:lol:
He had really gone to McNecromancers, a regional fast-food joint, and the line was so long (because of the demand for their lembas-lembas with cheese), that he completely missed the episode with the Spiders and Legolas's dad being all grumpy and stuff).
(Even having recognized the mistake by the time he transcribed The LotR, Tolkien stuck to his original bad translation... not wanting to admit he'd made such a mistake).
:lol:
Idioms and References
OK, here's where I think you can do some great worldbuilding in a subtle way. I don't think you should reference or use idioms from our world. In fact, you have to very careful of things in general if you have your own world, unrelated to our. Not only can't you mention McDonalds (for obvious reasons) but you shouldn't say that someone has a Roman nose--because the characters in your world don't know about Romans! So in one sense you're restricted by your own world in what language you can use.
However, that leaves you wide open to make your world more real and believable by creating your own idioms. Maybe it's a Corwathian nose instead, and thus you've built a little on the Corwathe culture. Same for idioms. McCaffery used "shards and shells" as swear words. It's a little touch that actually does more than you think for the reader, because the reader becomes more enmeshed in your world with such touches.
You have to be careful with this though. Don't have every other word unique to your world. Use such things as light touches. If you do this, not only will the world feel more real, but each little touch with have more impact on the reader. The more often you do something in writing, the less impact it has. So use such things sparingly.
Or at least, that's what I try to do. About paragraph 2 of this I realized I'd slipped into teacher/lecture mode. Sorry.
OK, here's where I think you can do some great worldbuilding in a subtle way. I don't think you should reference or use idioms from our world. In fact, you have to very careful of things in general if you have your own world, unrelated to our. Not only can't you mention McDonalds (for obvious reasons) but you shouldn't say that someone has a Roman nose--because the characters in your world don't know about Romans! So in one sense you're restricted by your own world in what language you can use.
However, that leaves you wide open to make your world more real and believable by creating your own idioms. Maybe it's a Corwathian nose instead, and thus you've built a little on the Corwathe culture. Same for idioms. McCaffery used "shards and shells" as swear words. It's a little touch that actually does more than you think for the reader, because the reader becomes more enmeshed in your world with such touches.
You have to be careful with this though. Don't have every other word unique to your world. Use such things as light touches. If you do this, not only will the world feel more real, but each little touch with have more impact on the reader. The more often you do something in writing, the less impact it has. So use such things sparingly.
Or at least, that's what I try to do. About paragraph 2 of this I realized I'd slipped into teacher/lecture mode. Sorry.
Figures of Speech
Now, figures of speech are something different. I once had a reader interpret "threw his arms up in disgust" badly. I meant of course that the character was disgusted with the situation/argument and just blew it off. This is a common figure of speech to ME, but obviously not to everyone. Someone actually thought I meant they vomited up arms. *eewwww!!* Or that I meant something to that effect.
The best advice I have for this . . . is to try not to use figures of speech. Make everything as clear as possible and as concise as possible. Once you start getting "creative" is that respect--flowery language, metaphors, similes, etc--then you need to catch yourself and force yourself back to the story. Simple words, concise language, etc all make MUCH better writing in the end. This is possibly the hardest thing for writers to learn, because we all like language, including flowery language, turns of phrase, etc.
But simple is better. Much, much better.
Now, figures of speech are something different. I once had a reader interpret "threw his arms up in disgust" badly. I meant of course that the character was disgusted with the situation/argument and just blew it off. This is a common figure of speech to ME, but obviously not to everyone. Someone actually thought I meant they vomited up arms. *eewwww!!* Or that I meant something to that effect.
The best advice I have for this . . . is to try not to use figures of speech. Make everything as clear as possible and as concise as possible. Once you start getting "creative" is that respect--flowery language, metaphors, similes, etc--then you need to catch yourself and force yourself back to the story. Simple words, concise language, etc all make MUCH better writing in the end. This is possibly the hardest thing for writers to learn, because we all like language, including flowery language, turns of phrase, etc.
But simple is better. Much, much better.
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*chuckle*TheIT said:
I worry about sentences like, "With a crisp nod of her head, she vanished."
In mainstream fiction that means she went out the door or whisked around a corner. (I suppose, in extreme examples, she might have fallen in a hole.) In fantasy or SF she may merely have gone *POOF* and literally vanished, so I try to avoid that kind of wording. I avoid using modern slang because I think it dates fiction very badly. I re-read "The Incomplete Enchanter" the other day, and didn't enjoy it nearly as much as I did twenty years ago, because of the 1940s slang and idioms. Of course, if you're aiming for a period piece...
I think it's ok to use some idioms, but as others have said, not ones from our world (unless it's reasonable to assume they would have developed there too, such as "the pot calling the kettle black" in a world where pots and kettles are used over fire). If you're getting into your character's head to write from their perspective, you should be able to find metaphors that will be relevant to their world and experience
In the book, 'The End of Harry Potter?', the author tells us that figures of speech should not be used very often in Fantasy or Science Fiction, for instance, in 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets', J.K Rowling describes Filch's cat, Mrs Norris as 'skeletal', which actually brings to mind the image of an animated cat skeleton, which isn't true at all.
For Science Fiction, I have made up a crappy example from the top of my head:
"Moving slowly along, the men stepped through the door, into the black hole beyond...."
Of course, in any other Genre, this would simply mean they stepped into a dark tunnel. But in Science Fiction, people might take it literally that there is a space Black Hole/Wormhole beyond the door.
For Science Fiction, I have made up a crappy example from the top of my head:
"Moving slowly along, the men stepped through the door, into the black hole beyond...."
Of course, in any other Genre, this would simply mean they stepped into a dark tunnel. But in Science Fiction, people might take it literally that there is a space Black Hole/Wormhole beyond the door.
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Actually, what you're quoting from Beowulf are called "kennings". It's a poetic figure that the Beowulf poet is using on purpose.
Swan-road is so much prettier than ye ol' sea.
Hmm... my professors would be happy to know I was paying attention in Romance (yanno, as in Medieval) class.
Some people here are talking about how genera authors might cause some confusion or second guessing when they say things like, "She vanished." or "He was sucked into his book."
Personally I think that's half the fun of sci-fi and fantasy. Of actually sucking people bodily into their books, or having them vanish with a flash of thunder and lightning. But it's important to make it clear what is normal and what is not.
Example: "She vanished" can be expanded into either
NORMAL) She vanished, walking around the corner"
FANTASTIC) She vanished with a muttered incantation and a loud CRAKKK sound that reminded Dave of shamrocks being put to death via lawn mower.
And "He was sucked into the book"
NORMAL) "He was sucked into the book, never putting it down, only pausing to eat or sleep.
FANTASTIC) With a yelp, he was sucked into the book. The book closed with a snap and I turned to Flemming. "So, what's for dinner tonight?"
Hehehe...I think writing it too much fun to be called a job. Editing, now Editing is the job.
Personally I think that's half the fun of sci-fi and fantasy. Of actually sucking people bodily into their books, or having them vanish with a flash of thunder and lightning. But it's important to make it clear what is normal and what is not.
Example: "She vanished" can be expanded into either
NORMAL) She vanished, walking around the corner"
FANTASTIC) She vanished with a muttered incantation and a loud CRAKKK sound that reminded Dave of shamrocks being put to death via lawn mower.
And "He was sucked into the book"
NORMAL) "He was sucked into the book, never putting it down, only pausing to eat or sleep.
FANTASTIC) With a yelp, he was sucked into the book. The book closed with a snap and I turned to Flemming. "So, what's for dinner tonight?"
Hehehe...I think writing it too much fun to be called a job. Editing, now Editing is the job.
now that I like.
It goes deeper than idioms though - there are many words that are culturally quite new but have become common usage that could blow a reader out of your story; mesmerized, for example - there are lots of others that its too late to think about.
Another Tolkien gaffe - Hobbits, allegedly living in some pre-historical Mittel-Europe (it supposed to be a history of our world, after all), eat potatoes.
and so it goes on.
Leo Frankowski uses idioms for comic effect in his Cross time engineer series. His modern MC uses them frequently, and his Middle-Age cohorts think he’s the wittiest man alive.
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