Miscarriages

gwendy85 · Aug 21, 2006

I went over to wikipedia to research about miscarriages but it didn't tell me much. My mother had a miscarriage but she didn't provide much info, except that it was painful (like she was having dysmenorrhea).

Can stress be a cause of miscarriages? And what's the indication that there's no more hope for the baby to be saved? Profuse bleeding? You see, I have this pregnant character (2months), and after a stressful event, she suddenly experiences painful cramps. She doesn't know what's going on until feels and finally sees the blood trickling down her ankles (she's wearing a long skirt). Not too much blood, but enough to make her panic. Is there a chance that the baby will be saved or is it doomed? Would there be a better chance for the baby if it were older? (3-4 months)

Thanks!

Peggy · Aug 21, 2006

I believe that 2 months would be much too early for the baby to be viable. I believe that the earliest significant chance for survival is at about 24 or so weeks.

You can check out what the fetus at 8weeks (about stage 20) looks like here - it's only 15-20 milimeters long at that point: http://www.visembryo.com/baby/index.html

Information about premature birth here: http://www.pediatrics.wisc.edu/patientcare/preemies/anticipating.html

I recommend doing a search on Medline Plus for information on miscarriage - they only link to reputable medical web sites.

Perks · Aug 21, 2006

I had a miscarriage at two and a half months a few years back. (And I have some training towards midwifery.) Most early miscarriages, before about twelve to fourteen weeks are caused by fetal anomalies. The body recognizes an error and stops the process. There is nothing that can or should be done to prevent it. Generally, there would be a loss of pregnancy symptoms - morning sickness, fatigue, sore breasts; then would follow some cramping, which could be moderate to severe; then finally the loss of the uterine lining and the fetus. Sometimes there will be headaches that can linger for days and other symptoms similar to PMS, because of strong hormone fluctuations, on top of an emotionally stressful time.

With cramping and significant bleeding at eight weeks, it's unlikely that a viable pregnancy would continue, but not impossible. Weird things happen all the time.

ETA - Stress causing a miscarriage is more of a myth-turned-cliche. Severe and prolonged stress can contribute to health problems that could damage a developing fetus, but bad scares are not looked upon as a factor in causes of early miscarriage.

If you need more specifics, just let me know.

HaleyDaulton · Aug 21, 2006

I've had three miscarriages, all at about the 10-week mark. With the first, my experience was much like Perks described. With the second, many years later, there were no such symptoms...just a little brown spotting and then confirmation from a vaginal ultrasound that there was no heartbeat. With the third, there were no symptoms leading up to it at all...I had been having mild nausea for a couple of weeks and then it stopped altogether, and then a week or so later, experienced bleeding similar to a heavy period. Again, doctor confirmed. By the way, in and around those miscarriages, I ended up with two healthy babies.

If you're looking for anecdotal evidence of stress-induced miscarriage, I think you'll probably find this everywhere you look. As for scientific proof, though, I think Perks is right. From everything I've read, a cataclysmic, stressful event has not been shown to negatively impact fetal viability. Still, depending on the genre, the premise may still work.

Good luck in your writing!

gwendy85 · Aug 21, 2006

Wow! Thanks for the info guys! I needed that, but then...I guess I'll have to make some changes in my outline.

So...the stress thing is just a myth? Let me give you a little more info on my character.

It is war time, so everything is just stressful not only for her, but for everyone else. 2 years prior to her pregnancy, she caught malaria, but is all right now (depending on how *all right* someone is after getting such a disease). Her love story is also tumultuous. VERY tumultuous. Also, she doesn't get to eat much (scarcity of food because of the war). She only realizes that she's pregnant when a friend points it out to her. Then came one of the most heart-wrenching events of her life and it is then that the miscarriage begins. I don't want to settle with just cramps. I want her to see the blood down her legs too, for it to be more dramatic. I read about "threatened abortion" in wikipedia, but am not sure about its implications.

What should I do? My character has to be pregnant, and she SHOULD NOT start showing yet. In what month will the fetus be more likely to survive and/or not?

And sorry about the miscarriages. My mom was depressed for a few months after hers. I was crying like a baby at the time, because I so wanted a little brother and the fetus was a boy.

She didn't know she was pregnant at the time, and she was taking these slimming pills. I think that's the thing that hurt us the most. The fetus didn't die of natural causes.

Hope you guys can help more. Thanks

Peggy · Aug 21, 2006

gwendy85 said:
What should I do? My character has to be pregnant, and she SHOULD NOT start showing yet. In what month will the fetus be more likely to survive and/or not?

Even today, preemies typically don't survive if they are younger than 23-24 weeks (see the University of Wisconsin site I linked to above), and even at 24 weeks the survival rate is only 40-70%. There have been huge leaps in neonatalogy in the past 60 years. According to this book :

Prior to 1940, the deaths associated with a preterm birth occurred either at or immediately following birth, according to Maureen Hack, Rainbow Babies and Children’s Hospital. Those babies who survived generally were born at 32 weeks of gestation (or later).
[...] Hack reported that when she started following premature children in the late 1970s, babies born at about 29 weeks’ gestation were being treated and some survived. In the 1980s, neonatologists were keeping babies alive at 26 weeks’ gestation, and in the 1990s, babies born at 23 or 24 weeks of gestation were surviving. Today, we still see a high percentage of mortality in infants born at less than 26 weeks of gestation; however, those born after 27 weeks of gestation have a greater probability of survival

If your mother is sick and malnourished, the baby might be underweight and need to gestate even longer to survive. At 32 weeks (8 months) I would expect her to be showing, unless you can think of a way for her to wear baggy clothes.

hollyann1219 · Aug 21, 2006

In a lot of cases, miscarriages just happen and no one knows why. I had an early miscarriage a few years ago. For whatever reason, I stopped making the pregnancy hormone. Not sure whether the lack of hormone caused the miscarriage or the miscarriage caused the lack of hormone.

In any case, your character could believe stress caused the miscarriage. That early on, no one could tell exactly why it happened, so why not?

By the way, with my more recent pregnancy thath went full term, I had cramping early on. The doctor said it was from my muscles being stretched. It was pretty painful so that's not always a definite sign.

C.bronco · Aug 22, 2006

Miscarriages are much more common than most think. Mom's health can be a factor, but I think more has to do with the fetus. Many women miscarry several times and then have a perfrectly fine pregnancy or two or 4.

In the first two months, some light spotting usually does occur, and then they tell you to lie down and take it easy. If the blood is dark then it's old blood and not a worry. If the blood is red or pink then there may be a problem.

Perks · Aug 22, 2006

Gwendy, I'm confused. You want the baby to survive? Enough blood to run down the leg is pretty dramatic at anytime during a pregnancy. Not to say that it can't happen and the baby survive, but enough blood to make that kind of a statement is the hallmark of a very serious problem.

Unless she is heavy, there would be no viable baby before a visible bump. And unless the story has a neo-natal intensive care unit handy, the baby won't have good prospects until at least 33 or 34 weeks (definitely way past showing.)

Now a lack of general health and a grand dose of emotional trauma could have her very ill - fainting could be done up nearly as dramatic as a stream of blood running down the leg. Also, I don't remember clearly, but stress - I believe - can reignite malaria. Do a google on malaria and pregnancy and you may find some good symptoms to work with.

kristie911 · Aug 22, 2006

If I'm understanding Gwendy right, she wants to make it seem as if the woman has a miscarriage but the pregnancy continues. Is that what you mean by the baby survives? It is possible to have bleeding in early pregnancy (a threatened miscarriage) but have it continue and the baby survive. It would, however, require bedrest and very good doctors. But with that much blood (enough to run down her leg) saving the fetus to carry it full-term would be a stretch. But stranger things have happened, I suppose.

Tish Davidson · Aug 22, 2006

gwendy85 said:
She only realizes that she's pregnant when a friend points it out to her.

Highly unlikely that a friend would recognize she is pregnant if she isn't showing yet.

gwendy85 · Aug 22, 2006

kristie911 said:
If I'm understanding Gwendy right, she wants to make it seem as if the woman has a miscarriage but the pregnancy continues. Is that what you mean by the baby survives? It is possible to have bleeding in early pregnancy (a threatened miscarriage) but have it continue and the baby survive. It would, however, require bedrest and very good doctors. But with that much blood (enough to run down her leg) saving the fetus to carry it full-term would be a stretch. But stranger things have happened, I suppose.

Hmm...I'll take that into account. Thanks!

But...it's really not THAT much blood. Something like a single trickling red line reaching to her ankle. What do you think?

Highly unlikely that a friend would recognize she is pregnant if she isn't showing yet.

The friend's a nurse. My character's suspected of having an affair (not that she and the guy are married to anyone else) and well...my character starts barfing up and the friend was there and begins to ask her questions until they came to the conclusion that she's pregnant.

Perks · Aug 22, 2006

gwendy85 said:
Something like a single trickling red line reaching to her ankle. What do you think?

Enough blood to get to your ankle, even in a single stream is a lot for a pregnancy to remain viable at two months. Of course, you can write it and make us believe. It's just not a very likely scenario. Weird things happen for certain.

gwendy85 · Aug 22, 2006

As far as I've observed, the most common line around here is "Weird things can happen..."

Again, I'll take that into account. Now all I have to do is write. Thanks guys! These really helped!

kazrahtenango · Aug 23, 2006

My mother had a placental haemorrhage when she was pregnant with my brother at 12 weeks. There was a lot of blood and she fainted in the street was rushed to hospital, tres dramatic. He survived, but he is partially deaf and has some learning difficulties (dyslexia), which her/his doctor believes has to do with an interruption to his blood supply to at the time. Perhaps your child might have some kind of disability as a result of this?

Adagiomin · Aug 23, 2006

I've had two miscarriages, or spontaneous abortions which I was told is the proper term when the loss occurs at twelve weeks or less (first trimester). These can be complete or incomplete spontaneous aborts. Mine were incompletes (conceptus did not pass in one fell swoop and I required a D&E), and occurred at about ten and a half/eleven weeks; in both instances, nausea or morning sickness had ceased for at least a week before I bled. (By the time bleeding commences, the fetus is no longer living.) Both times I felt the first trickle of blood before it was strong enough to flow anywhere; it’s not a feeling that one can easily ignore. My bleeding was eventually profuse, and I passed out on the hospital gurney during the second one at least twice. I felt cramping much like labor when the uterus was expelling the tissue.

I have three children, all born at term, and never saw even a spot of blood during those pregnancies. You can't shake a good apple from the tree, my doctor told me.

expatbrat · Aug 24, 2006

I've had a miscarriage and malaria. My miscarriage answer is mixed in with my malaria response on your other thread.

illiterwrite · Aug 24, 2006

I was going to say exactly what expatbrat said in the other thread. Blood running down your ankle (even in a single thin stream) would have to be a huge gush of blood. Cramping usually comes before any sign of blood (unless it's just light spotting). At just 2 months pregnant, if heavy bleeding (especially red blood) started, the pregnancy would almost certainly not continue. In later pregnancy, heavy bleeding can occur from placental abruption and things like that, but it's serious and requires urgent medical attention.

Could she just see some spotting on her undies (or on bathroom tissue) and panic, thinking it's a miscarriage?

PastMidnight · Aug 26, 2006

Here's another suggestion, if you want your character to suspect that she is bleeding from a miscarriage: With one of my pregnancies I got a UTI with blood in my urine. It was pretty scary to see, because I didn't know where I was bleeding from, just that there was a lot of blood in the toliet. It ended up being a minor problem and the baby was just fine, but, not knowing any better, I saw the blood and thought there was a serious problem.

gwendy85 · Aug 28, 2006

I haven't posted in a while.

Thanks for sharing a lot of info and personal experiences.

I'm thinking of her just having cramps of some sort and since she knows she's pregnant, she panics.

But the blood is dramatic.

What to do...what to do...

Then again, this is fiction. Thanks for the great input guys!

rtilryarms · Aug 28, 2006

My Wife had a Miscarriage. It wasn't really physically painful, she says, but the emotional trauma was severe. I forget what week but I think around 10 - 12. He was puny.
My littlest Brother, Chuck, was born severely premature, under 3 lbs I think eitehr 2.6 or 2.8, I reserve the right to correct that. They gave him little chance to survive and wanted to abort but instead my Mom fought them. Could amost cover him with one hand if we were allowed to hold him.

Today he is the biggest of us all, 6' and about 220 lbs, stocky but not all muscles like me

Go figure.

(Those that know me are accustomed to the fact that Doctors scratch their heads with us)

Variant Frequencies · Aug 28, 2006

Gwendy, I think a little blood is fine for the purpose of your story. Not a big gush, but even a little trickle is scary. You might consider making the pregnancy a little further along than 2 months. Not so she's huge, but so she's more attached to the idea of being pregnant. Like maybe a little tummy bump that she can touch. It would make the threatened miscarriage more dramatic.

Evaine · Aug 28, 2006

When I was a holiday rep, I was at the hotel when another rep had to deal with a group of girls who were due to fly home that night. One of them had fainted, and the other girls were panicking. It turned out that the fainting girl was literally about to give birth - she had the baby a couple of days later in the local hospital - and none of her friends had suspected a thing. Nor had her parents, who flew out to be with her. She was 19.
So it is possible to hide a pregnancy right up to the time of birth.

gwendy85 · Aug 29, 2006

Variant Frequencies said:
Gwendy, I think a little blood is fine for the purpose of your story. Not a big gush, but even a little trickle is scary. You might consider making the pregnancy a little further along than 2 months. Not so she's huge, but so she's more attached to the idea of being pregnant. Like maybe a little tummy bump that she can touch. It would make the threatened miscarriage more dramatic.

Yes, yes, that's exactly what I mean!

Just a trickle. And yes, she's further along than 2 months, and she's VERY attached to the idea of being pregnant. She wanted...no. NEEDED to have the baby, because of her emotional attachments.

But then, is there a possibility (I can't say yet if the child will survive or not, as I'm still thinking about it) that if the baby survives, that it will NOT have any disorders like dyslexia?

Thanks again for all the input, guys! Also, I had a classmates once. He was a premature baby. He handed us a picture. He was as small as a fist but he survived. At 16yrs old, he's 6'0". Go figure here too...

Forbidden Snowflake · Aug 29, 2006

There are women who still get their period while being pregnant, so it could happen that in the first or month or even in the second you would slightly bleed, enough to panic the mother without actually endangering the baby. But as soon as we are talking about much blood, it is getting difficult, but even then it depends on where does the blood come from, she could be bleeding from somewhere due to another reason that has nothing to do with the baby.

So yes, can survive.

Miscarriages

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