Sequels, splitting one novel into two, more questions

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Southern_girl29

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I'm going to include a synopsis of my novel and asked questions below. I think it will be easier if I do it that way.

Ships That Don't Come In is about a Vietnam veteran, Max Harris, who returns home after two tours of duty. His best friend, John, has lost a leg saving Max's life. Max hopes his family has changed but finds out his mother is just as controlling as before. He is forced into a loveless marriage, when the girl he had been seeing, Debbie, becomes pregnant.

His first child is born premature and dies after a few hours. Because of this, he and his wife drift apart. She becomes pregnant again, and he takes a job several hours away. He lives with his friend John for several years and away from his wife, before he decides to get a divorce. Debbie does not want to give him the divorce he seeks.

Max meets another woman, Sarah, and falls in love with her. She becomes pregnant by him. Before he finds out Sarah is pregnant, Max is seduced by Debbie. She says if he will sleep with her one more time, she will sign the papers for the divorce. Max goes to court, believing he will be granted a divorce, and will be able to marry Sarah. Instead, Debbie announces she is pregnant, and the divorce can't be granted.

For the next several years, Sarah and Max keep up with their relationship. She goes on to have another child. Max realizes Debbie will never give him a divorce, and his mother will never accept his other family as her own. He decides to break up with Sarah.

Later, he regrets his decision. He calls Sarah, and she tells him it is too late. She says he can be a father to the children, Blythe and Matthew, but the two of them can't have a relationship. Max makes the decision not to see his children anymore.

Max has been drinking heavily the entire time, but his drinking worsens. He is involved in a terrible accident, where he becomes permanently disabled. He continues to live with John and John's wife, Suzanne. One morning, Max awakens to find John dead from an aneurysm. Since Max can't take care of himself because of the accident, he moves back in with Debbie.

When Debbie finds out Sarah has married someone else, she grants Max his divorce. He has to move back in with his parents.

The second half of the book starts with Blythe, Max's child with Sarah, meeting Max for the first time in 12 years, and her grandparents, Max's parents, for the first time ever. It goes into how she develops a relationship with Max and how her grandparents treat her.

Max dies at the end of the story, with nothing resolved between Blythe and the rest of her family. Max always told Blythe he would be a father to her when his ship came in, but Blythe realizes that some ships don't ever come in.

So, here are my questions. First, do publishers like sequels? I have two or three other novels I can get from this book. I guess it wouldn't necessarily be a sequel but maybe a spin-off.

Secondly, Max's story covers the first 28 chapters. I feel that it is better written than the last 12 chapters, Blythe's story. For some reason, when writing the first draft, I felt hemmed in with her story, like I had to keep the book at 40 chapters. Her story could be fleshed out into a novel on its own. Would it better to be split the two and have two novels? Ending with Max's story leaves a lot hanging though.

Ok, last question. Max is an ***, pure and simple. He doesn't start out that way, but it is what he evolves into. Do you think it's Ok to have a main character who people will hate? He has his good points, and there are other good people in this novel. He just isn't always likeable.
 

PODLINGMASTER

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Characters people hate

Greetings,

How about the Grinch, Freddy Krueger, Count Olaf, Darth Vader, etc...

These are all bad guys and people love them. As long as the character is interesting enough to carry the story being the main focus, you should be fine.

Until then,

Podlingmaster
 

citymouse

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Hello SG. Yes in general publishers prefer a series from an author they believe will sell. That's not to say a one off novel can't get published but if you have more than one and there all good you've got a better shot at it.
I have two books out now in my Jan Phillips series and the third is optioned by a publisher. This publisher wants to take all three (putting the first two out as second editions) expressly because they are a cohesive series; and they're selling.

Now as for having a main character turn out to be less than godlike, yes that can work too. In my first novel I have two main characters, one innocent and vulnerable turns out to be an ungrateful snot while the other begins as a predatory bastard and ends up a sympathetic if not likable person. At the end of the story I bind these two and resolve them. My readers loved it. In fact the sequel, which is a better book all round, trails the first in sales by 2:1. Go figure!
 

Southern_girl29

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I am seriously thinking about splitting the first book into two, but it will leave so many questions unanswered. At the end of Max's part of the book, he has just given up, gone to live with his parents and that's it. It doesn't really wrap anything up. Knowing there will be a sequel, would this be ok?
 

blackbird

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IMHO, I would say no. Unless you're already a "name" author, there's no guarantee of how well your first book will do; if it sinks, you may have difficulty getting the second installemnt published. It is extremely difficult for new writers to sell publishers on a series. Best bet would be to make the first half as much of a stand-alone story as possible, which means you need a satisfactory conclusion that won't leave any loose ends hanging. This is a good idea even if your publisher is willing to take a chance on the second book. After all, there are many readers who may only read the first book, or only the second.

If the first book does well, then you can consider a sequel. And if the sequel does as well as the first, you probably have a guaranteed audience by this point and can pretty much do what you want.
 

citymouse

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Southern_girl29 said:
I am seriously thinking about splitting the first book into two, but it will leave so many questions unanswered. At the end of Max's part of the book, he has just given up, gone to live with his parents and that's it. It doesn't really wrap anything up. Knowing there will be a sequel, would this be ok?

Then wrap it up or begin the sequel with a short (emphasize short) prologue. Don't fall into victim to the temptation of rewriting the entire book story as prologue to the second. You don't want to end up with something resembling a Wagner opera.
 

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Southern_girl, I faced a similar dilemma with one of my novels. The story became too large for a single novel, and I made the choice to split it into two volumes. I knew that I had to structure the first book so that it could stand independantly, but still have a few dangling plot threads that lead into the sequel.

It took some rewriting, scene rejiggering, chapter moving, deleting and adding, and any other number of things. But the first book now follows one central conflict, with several minor subplots. Parts of these subplots get resolved, other parts are left open for the sequel.

My advice is do your best to make the first volume stand alone, with a clear beginning, middle and end. The reader will need some sort of resolution to Max's story, even if you hint that there is more yet to tell.
 

Southern_girl29

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The thing with Max's story is I guess it does end at the end of his section, because when I go to Blythe's, she finds out that all he has done between the time of the end of his story to the beginning of hers is to slip farther down in alcoholism and self-pity. I hope that made sense, lol.

Let's see if I can explain this better. Max's story ends because he has lost everything. His best friend dies. He's permanently disabled in an accident. He no longer has the woman he loves or his children by her. He no longer has his wife (who isn't the woman he loved), and he has had to move back in with his parents, a decision he never wanted to have to make. It ends with him at his parents house after a conversation with his mom. Blythe would be 10 at this point. I just don't know if that winds it up enough or not. It's definately not a happy ending, but I don't really believe books have to have a happy ending.

The next chapter opens with Blythe at the age of 15. So, there is a five year gap between the opening of her story and the end of his.
 

NeuroFizz

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I'd strongly recommend you consider strengthening your story, and particularly your ending. I'm not saying it has to be a happy ending, but there has to be some resolution--the main character has to be changed personally, for all of his experiences, and this has to come through loud and clear to the readers or it won't be much of a stand alone story (which it has to be). The absolute worst thing to do is query an agent saying you have a book series, but present a first volume with a weak or obscure story/ending. The first book has to sell, and sell well, or there will be no second book.

Perhaps your summary doesn't do the story justice, but is all seems to run downhill. What I worry about most is your main character. He makes so many stupid decisions (it seems), your overwhelming challenge will be to make him sympathetic to the reader. If you don't pull that off, most readers will quit reading before getting to the end, and those who do finish it may very well say, "Good. The bas***d got what he deserved." Will that reaction serve as an enticement for a next book in the series?

Does your main character have any hope of pulling himself out of the heaps of refuse he's pulled around himself? Is it true he procreates without abandon, abandons some of his offspring, shrugs off relationships? He sounds like a first class turd. What is your underlying theme of the story? Stories that resonate with readers are the ones that give the readers ammunition to identify or sympathize with your character(s). I didn't feel any of that in the synopsis. Maybe I'm missing something, but if your story runs true to the synopsis, you may not want to worry about sequels just yet.

To all, if I'm off base here, please speak up. I may have missed something in the synopsis.
 

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I agree with Neuro--your first book has to be able to stand on its own to even warrant a sequel.

As for having a character who is well-liked (or not), I think people prefer to read about humans, flaws and all. Unfortunately, I've heard of readers deciding they dislike a book because the main character is a jerk (the book "The Beach" comes to mind, as an example), but I disagree. It's more interesting to read about an a-hole sometimes. Reading about good people who make smart decisions is boring. If your character has more of an epiphany at the end, this will help tie it together.
 

katiemac

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Crazy thought: Is Max's story worth telling at all? Perhaps what you really have is 28 chapters of backstory leading into the real story, Blythe's.
 

Southern_girl29

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Y'all have given me a lot to think about. First of all, Max is a character some will hate. Others are going to feel sorry for him. He feels like most of his problems are caused by his mother, and they were, but he let her do these things to him. I used to be a member of a writing group, and there were mixed opinions on him. Some of the women liked him but felt sorry for him. Most of the men hated him.

My summary is a little too vague, I believe. The novel begins with Max in Tokyo Army Hospital, waking up after being injured and missing in action during Vietnam. He calls home but his mother won't accept the charges on the phone call. I think this shows the kind of person, the kind of mother she is. After that, he finds out his best friend, John, lost his leg trying to save him. He is eaten up with guilt over this. When he comes home, he just wants to feel clean again, and he meets up with Debbie, who is mother wants him to be with. When she gets pregnant, his mother tells him that if he doesn't marry her, she'll never have anything to do with him and neither will his brother or his dad. She's very, very controlling. She wants him to do what she thinks is right, and even though he didn't want to marry Debbie, he does it.

So, that's the start of the story. I think you can see how his mother is. He makes most of his decisions because of things she has said and done. She controls him, she's mean to him, she treats him like sh*t, but he keeps coming back for more, because she's his mom and he wants her to love him. He even says this at one point in the novel.

In Blythe's section, he does have a sort of revelation. He decides he wants to meet her, and she agrees. He apologizes for all that he has done, and she accepts his apology. They forge a relationship in spite of all that happens and in spite of the fact that his parents and his other children don't really want that to happen. He stands up to them, but not in his section.

Anyway, here is the end of Max's story. The grammar mistakes in the dialogue on Max's part are intentional.

“Momma, nothing’s ever just right or wrong. I think you’d be old enough to know that by now. Sometimes, the right thing ain’t the right thing. Sometimes, to be happy, you gotta do what everyone considers wrong.” He took a deep breath. “I let all of them go, Sarah, Blythe and Matthew, when I had never been happier with anyone else in my life. I let them go because I thought it was the right thing to do. But it wasn’t. And one of these days, maybe, I’ll go back to them and tell them I’m sorry for what I done. I blame a lot of it on you and Debbie, but yeah, some of it was me. I didn’t have to get mixed up in all this ****, but I did.”

“I’m not going to take any of the blame for your mistakes, Maxwell. I just tried to get you to do right.”

“It don’t matter now, Momma. Nothing really does.”
 

Southern_girl29

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The Vietnam element

Mayor of Moronia said:
I'm wondering about the Vietnam tease. What does the Vietnam War have to do with your story?

Vietnam actually has a lot to do with it. The first chapter starts with him waking up in an Army hospital after being wounded and missing in action. His best friend, John, lost his leg trying to save and protect him. When he comes home, he just wants to feel clean and pure again, and Debbie helps with that. Debbie is the beginning of all of his trouble.

Throughout the book, he has dreams of his time in Vietnam. Sometimes, they are dreams about what really happened, but most of the time, they mirror what is going on in his life at that given moment.

The guilt over John losing his leg because of him also stays with him most of the book.

And, finally, he was exposed to Agent Orange during his time in the service. He suffers from Agent Orange Syndrome during Blythe's portion of the book. This leads her to feeling sorry for him and eventually leads her to realize she doesn't hate him as she thought.
 

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Here's a thought, and feel free to discard it if you don't like it.

Have you thought about using Blythe's story as a frame for Max's story? Make the first couple of chapters about Blythe and her angst over finally meeting her dad for the first time in twelve years (I don't think you said how old she'll be during this meeting, but I'm assuming some teen trauma is in there somewhere). Meeting the grandparents, and starting the new relationship.

Then tell Max's story as a flashback of sorts. Kind of like "The Notebook" or "The Green Mile," where the flashbacks are the meat of the story.

Once Max's story is told, you jump back to Blythe, all the reconciliation, and Max's eventual acceptance of his life and his death.

Again, just an idea.
 

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chaostitan said:
Have you thought about using Blythe's story as a frame for Max's story? Make the first couple of chapters about Blythe and her angst over finally meeting her dad for the first time in twelve years (I don't think you said how old she'll be during this meeting, but I'm assuming some teen trauma is in there somewhere). Meeting the grandparents, and starting the new relationship.

I actually started out like this. Blythe getting ready to meet her grandparents and her dad was at the beginning of the story, with her wondering why Max was the way he was. Then, I jumped right into Max's story. I took it away for some reason. I don't remember now exactly what it was. Blythe is 15 when she meets her dad for the first time.
 

ChaosTitan

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Southern_girl29 said:
I actually started out like this. Blythe getting ready to meet her grandparents and her dad was at the beginning of the story, with her wondering why Max was the way he was. Then, I jumped right into Max's story. I took it away for some reason. I don't remember now exactly what it was. Blythe is 15 when she meets her dad for the first time.

I suggested the frame format because you seem to have two independant, yet interconnected, stories here. Since you have only given chapter numbers and not word counts, it's impossible to gauge if you have enough story to make two complete novels. And since Blythe's emotional journey seems tied to Max's story, they may work better together.

Just my two cents. :)
 

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chaostitan said:
I suggested the frame format because you seem to have two independant, yet interconnected, stories here. Since you have only given chapter numbers and not word counts, it's impossible to gauge if you have enough story to make two complete novels. And since Blythe's emotional journey seems tied to Max's story, they may work better together.

Just my two cents. :)

They are definately connect. And, I appreciate the two cents. I might go even go back and change it to starting out with Blythe.

The novel has approximately 123,000 words.
 

Southern_girl29

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chaostitan said:
I suggested the frame format because you seem to have two independant, yet interconnected, stories here. Since you have only given chapter numbers and not word counts, it's impossible to gauge if you have enough story to make two complete novels. And since Blythe's emotional journey seems tied to Max's story, they may work better together.

Just my two cents. :)

I appreciate the two cents :) . I might even go back and start the story with Blythe. The novel has approximately 123,000 words total, including Blythe's story.
 

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I thought the same thing as Chaos. The story seems to be about Blythe and her relationship/getting to know Max. If you start the story with Max, it doesn't seem to go anywhere. Yes, lots of things happen to him, but that's not necessarily a story. It just seems to meander a bit, based on your outline. Yes, you're getting us to a point where we understand him, but if that can be framed in the confines of Blythe's perception, and if the readers learn these things along with her, then the story has a lot more meaning and is therefore more compelling.
 

Southern_girl29

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Cat Scratch said:
I thought the same thing as Chaos. The story seems to be about Blythe and her relationship/getting to know Max. If you start the story with Max, it doesn't seem to go anywhere. Yes, lots of things happen to him, but that's not necessarily a story. It just seems to meander a bit, based on your outline. Yes, you're getting us to a point where we understand him, but if that can be framed in the confines of Blythe's perception, and if the readers learn these things along with her, then the story has a lot more meaning and is therefore more compelling.

I'm going to have to tighten up my outline, because I really don't think the story meanders. To me, and I could be wrong, Max's story is the meat. It proves my theme. Blythe's, when I was first writing it, was really to serve as a way to show that Max redeemed himself and could be redeemed. It also served to show that not everything Max touched turned out bad. I'm really thinking though of combining Max's chapters with Blythe's and have Max's chapters as a flashback.
 
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