Mythological or biblical question

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Jenny

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Is there a being/creature which inhabits a region between Heaven and Hell?- no, not humans. Some supernatural being that coordinates communication between the two regions. I was trying to think of an afterworld creature neither heavenly nor hellish for a short story and came up blank.
 

Robert Toy

Jenny said:
Is there a being/creature which inhabits a region between Heaven and Hell?- no, not humans. Some supernatural being that coordinates communication between the two regions. I was trying to think of an afterworld creature neither heavenly nor hellish for a short story and came up blank.
Simple...Haskins!
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
What religion or mythos are you using as your base?

In Greek mythology, Hermes, the messenger god, could carry messages between Mount Olympus, earth, and Hades.
 

Angelinity

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gromhard said:
An angel?

angels not belonging to the heavenly realm no mo'?

i think they're relegated to the respective banks of the styx, (angel of light / angel of darkness)...

i would go with hermes too --

...but you might want to look into hinduism - if you don't mind getting ethnic... last time i checked they had some hundreds of gods covering just about every square inch of the netherworld.
 
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Birol

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That's a good question right now.
I'm thinking most of the old mythologies, or pagan religions, would have a messenger god.

I think in Norse mythology the messenger god was called Hermod.
 

gromhard

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Angelinity said:
hinduism - if you don't mind getting ethnic...

All the world's major religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism were founded by brown men. Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna were all brown skin toned.

So what exact "ethnic" diversity were you referring to? How are Angels, not ethnic and yet Hindi gods are?

P.S. As to the OP, you might wanna try(if any mythological figure will do) Charon, he was the ferryman of the river Styx in Greece.
 
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Angelinity

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gromhard said:
...were all brown skin toned.

So what exact "ethnic" diversity were you referring to? How are Angels, not ethnic and yet Hindi gods are?

not referring to skin color at all!

...to culture, though ;P e.g., the piece will most likely target a western perspective ---> therefore, is hinduism known well enough in the western hemisphere to be used here??

that's all i meant - never crossed my mind it might be interpreted this way (obviously, a shortcoming i need to work on!)...
 

TeddyG

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Okay first please define
Two regions?
You may mean three
1. Heaven
2. Earth
3. Hell

The answer in terms of Jewish legends and midrash can get very very complicated and long, so perhaps a more detailed question would be in order.

In short (according to Jewish mysticism and midrash - not only Kabbalah) there can be a description of 7 heavens and 7 hells. Some Angels are created with the specific purpose of relaying information to mankind. Some are eternal. Some actually maintain the heavens while in one specific heaven deals with humankind.

As to between heaven and hell. There are four "Arch Angels". Not really a good translation but that is what English usually uses. However, these four were actually created as five brothers. The fifth being whom is known as Satan in today's world. These five brothers do maintain communication, well actually one of the five maintains an "open channel" as it were with the netherworld and their brother Satan.

Your question at least for me is a bit too general, to answer in greater depth.
 

mdin

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Like everybody else said, it depends on the mythos. Someone mentioned Hermes. Then there's Charon, that dude you see with the boat that takes you across the river.

Muslims have Araf, which is kind of like limbo... the place between heaven and hell.
 

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Jenny said:
Is there a being/creature which inhabits a region between Heaven and Hell?- no, not humans. Some supernatural being that coordinates communication between the two regions. I was trying to think of an afterworld creature neither heavenly nor hellish for a short story and came up blank.

Yes; if you want to go Western European, there's lots of stuff on this.

These are the "aery spirits," or in Shakespearean terms, critters like Arial in Shakepseare's Tempest. This is the region occupied by daemons (not demons; these are elemental spirits, neither good nor evil by nature).

If you want to go to folklore, that's one view of Western European fairies; See the ballad Thomas the Rhymer and the related romance Thomas of Erceldoune. A fairy finds a mortal man sleeping beneath a tree, seduces him, and takes him with her to the fairy otherworld. On the way to the otherworld, she shows him the possible routes:

"O see ye not that narrow road,
So thick beset with thorns and briers?
That is the path of righteousness,
Tho after it but few enquires.

"And see not ye that braid braid road,
That lies across that lily leven?
That is the path to wickedness,
Tho some call it the road to heaven.

"And see not ye that bonny road,
That winds about the fernie brae?
That is the road to fair Elfland,
Where thou and I this night maun gae.


Child Ballad 37; see the whole thing here:

http://www.tam-lin.org/texts/thomas.html
 
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dclary

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You should go the Whedon route: just invent the myth you want for your story. It's not like anyone's going to stand up in the middle of a story and go, "wait a minute! there's no wild imp named Matt Daemon in the 3rd plane of netheragonia!"
 

Jenny

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What a fantastic ballad, thanks Medievalist. I don't think the aery spirits are quite what I want, but now I can't resist chasing them up - drat, so much to learn, only one lifetime! I love the ballad.

As for Navigator's mention of Araf, I'm woefully under-educated, so it too goes on the list - do you happen to have any recommendations for good Intro to Islam and/or Muslim world texts? I know, provide me with info and I just keep on asking - like the Elephant Child's "Why?"

Messenger gods :e2hammer: Thanks, Birol, how could I have forgotten them? Hinduism was a good suggestion, too, Angelinity. Like you, I'd forgotten to think of mythologies beyond the Western/Middle Eastern region. No excuse for me, living in Australia among the gorgeous Dreamtime stories.

Teddy, the question was general because I don't have a specific story to slot the "go-between" into - I did have such a story, but for that I ended up promoting Gog (from Gog, King of Magog) to "Finder of the Damned" - as DClary suggested, I plain made it up! But other stories will involve this supernatural realm, and I find "messenger" characters important in a number of stories, so I thought I'd pose the general question. And I'm really glad I did.

The idea of seven heavens and seven hells is totally new to me, so I can't really think of specific questions which won't waste your time - except, of course - please, can you recommend what I can read as an introduction to Jewish mysticism and midrash?

Thanks everyone immensely. I'm going to go send rep points - to everyone except the nameless one (RT) who thinks a POET can be trusted as a messenger! Don't you know they forget stuff that doesn't rhyme ;)

Jenny
 

mdin

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I don't know too much about Muslim stuff, just what I ran across during research for my own book.

Man... if you haven't already, check out http://www.pantheon.org

I would double check any article on there, though. Wikipedia is always a good place to start also, though it's never a good place to finish.
 

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Birol said:
I think in Norse mythology the messenger god was called Hermod.
The Norse also have a squirrel named Ratatosk who scurries up and down the World Tree, Yggdrasil, and carries smack-talk between the Eagle who roosts in the branches and the Dragon who coils around the roots. "Hey, the Eagle says yer mama was a gecko!" "Oh yeah? Well, you tell that bird-brain...."
 

TeddyG

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Jenny

Most of the sources I have are either in Hebrew and Aramaic and they would require an in depth knowledge of Talmudic logic and mystical ideas. However, I will try to get you some overall article sources.

There is one thing I would try though, if only for the fascination. Try to get your hands on a GOOD translation of the Apocrypha and go through the Book of Adam & Eve (One and Two) and the book of Hanoch (Enoch). You will I think if nothing else, find them fascinating for the angels.

I would also certainly at least take a cursory look at Milton's "Paradise Lost" - if for nothing else it is a great read (if you are into it) and contains an incredible wealth of stuff based upon religious belief of angels from the annals of christian thought.
 
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Jenny

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Nicole, I think you've got a squirrel story in you, just trying to break out. Thanks for the tip, I'd never heard of Ratatosk.

Pantheon.org's been added to favourites. Thanks, Navigator.

Teddy, I'm going to get "The Other Bible" from the library just as soon as the person currently reading it (it's overdue, grrr) returns it. It sounds like a respectable translation of the Apocrypha. And "Paradise Lost" I have scattered in bits through various poetry collections - that'll do for a start. Thanks.
 

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RE: Paradise Lost, if you can get your hands on The Norton Critical Edition, that's by far the most readable.
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
Medievalist, can you also recommend a respectable translation of the Apocrypha for those of us unschooled it in its original language?
 

Jenny

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Quick update. "The Other Bible" was a bust. I skimmed it, but instead of full texts they were extracts (and sometimes very old translations - nothing wrong with old, but what about the advantages of scholarship since the Nineteenth Century, hmm?). The only thing I learned - and it wasn't on topic - was the story about Lilith. I'd never heard of an equal partner for Adam before Eve.

However Milton is gorgeous and I'm so glad that with prompting from here I got over my inferiority complex ("but I won't understand him!") and started reading Paradise Lost. The descent of Raphael is lovely, and coming from a dry region, the explanation of paradise lost as the drying up of a water rich land really worked for me. Thanks, Teddy.
 

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Birol said:
Medievalist, can you also recommend a respectable translation of the Apocrypha for those of us unschooled it in its original language?

I've only just now seen this.

The thing is, that Apocrypha is more like a genre than a list of texts; but I'll take a look at what I have and what's available.
 

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Apocrypha basically translates as "hidden texts" and was first used by St. Jerome around the 5th century AD. Catholic and Protestant books differ in the number of books because Catholic Bibles include most of the Apocrypha, i.e. the books of Judith, Wisdom (of Solomon), Tobit, Sirach (Ecclesiastes), Baruch, and First and Second Maccabees. None of these texts were included in the first English translation of the Bible - the King James. Debate over whether it is the Protestants who have left out parts of the Bible or the Catholics who have added to it have raged for centuries.

In addition to the books still contained in a Catholic Bible, the Apocrypha includes the Prayer of Manessah, two books of Esdra, and additions to both the book of Esther and Daniel.

Any Catholic Bible - including those versions written in a more "everyday" language style should include the portions of the Apocrypha I've listed. I doubt very much, however, that reading these texts in any version is going to help provide an answer to the original question.

Another Catholic belief is in a realm called Purgatory - a place that is between heaven and hell, a place of waiting. It is not as often mentioned as in earlier decades but the belief remains.

Religious faith aside, you might want to delve into some spiritualist writings about realms that lie between heaven and hell. I can't really reccommend any but you might look into some of pyschic Sylvia Browne's books because I've seen her on the Montel Williams show talking about creatures that inhabit another dimension.
 
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