3rd Person Perspective Problem (had, had, had...)

[gwendy85]

Hello guys!

I'm writing this novel (as with most people here I suppose :) and mine's a historical romance set in World War II. I'm using 3rd person perspective or POV or whatever. I don't know the difference! Hahaha! Brand me an idiot...

But that's not the problem. You see, though I write in the 3rd person, I also jump into my characters' minds, in that, I write the way they feel, the way they're thinking without ever resulting to "I", "Me","We","Us" and "Our" unless I inject them as thought through quotes and italics.

Now, my problem is being that it is set in the past, I use the past tense in the novel. Some past events are only mentioned so for them, I use past participle, particularly the word "had". But how many times can you use "had" in a sentence that is already in past tense and indicates a past event?

Ex.
She had already explained to him that she had given them the information, but he had refused to believe it. Now, he was accusing her of not giving him enough knowledge on the matter.

And what if the fact or information about that person's culture is still the same today? Do I still use past tense or should I use present tense?

Ex.
He didn't want to believe it. Still, he knew what happens when a man and a woman are often left alone together.

Is that even correct?
Hope to hear some corrections on this, especially with that "had" thing. I've been having trouble with it for months :)

[blacbird]

"She had already explained to him that she had given them the information, but he had refused to believe it. Now, he was accusing her of not giving him enough knowledge on the matter."

She gave him the information, but he refused to believe it. She told him that. Now he accused her of not giving him enough knowledge on the matter.

caw.

[J. Weiland]

Style has nothing to do with content. So it is a choice you make; do you want to write the novel in past tense or present tense. If you mix the two up, the work might be unreadable.

'Had' is what is known as 'past perfect', which the following is an example of:

"He had walked the dog that day."

A normal past tense would be:

"He walked the dog that day."

You can use both in a text; the problem comes when you want to shift between past and present tense.

[maestrowork]

Once you established the time frame by using the first past perfect tense, you can use past tense for the rest of the passage. Also, to me, past perfect tense should be used relative to the current event, such as: "She told him that she had already eaten an hour before." In your example, I believe you could just use past tense... or at least use just one "had":

She [had] already explained to him that she gave them the information, but he refused to believe it. Now, he accused her of not giving him enough knowledge on the matter.

(only use the -ing form if he truly was doing something at the moment: "He was eating cereal when she called.")

And what if the fact or information about that person's culture is still the same today? Do I still use past tense or should I use present tense?

I would try not to mix tenses, even if you're describing something that is still true now.

He didn't want to believe it. Still, he knew what happened when a man and a woman were often left alone together.

Or, you could get rid of the filtering:

He didn't want to believe it; still, everyone knows what happens when a man and a woman are often left alone together.

(I mean, if it's a truth and you feel like you need to use "present" tense, then you shouldn't filter through him, because then it became only his interpretation, and you would use "past tense" as in the first example)

[JanDarby]

If you're writing a lot of pluperfect (past past), it may be an indication that you're dumping backstory or or telling instead of showing or doing flashbacks more often than you should.

JD

[gwendy85]

Once you established the time frame by using the first past perfect tense, you can use past tense for the rest of the passage. Also, to me, past perfect tense should be used relative to the current event, such as: "She told him that she had already eaten an hour before." In your example, I believe you could just use past tense... or at least use just one "had":

She [had] already explained to him that she gave them the information, but he refused to believe it. Now, he accused her of not giving him enough knowledge on the matter.

(only use the -ing form if he truly was doing something at the moment: "He was eating cereal when she called.")

And what if the fact or information about that person's culture is still the same today? Do I still use past tense or should I use present tense?

I would try not to mix tenses, even if you're describing something that is still true now.

He didn't want to believe it. Still, he knew what happened when a man and a woman were often left alone together.

Or, you could get rid of the filtering:

He didn't want to believe it; still, everyone knows what happens when a man and a woman are often left alone together.

(I mean, if it's a truth and you feel like you need to use "present" tense, then you shouldn't filter through him, because then it became only his interpretation, and you would use "past tense" as in the first example)

If you're writing a lot of pluperfect (past past), it may be an indication that you're dumping backstory or or telling instead of showing or doing flashbacks more often than you should.

Hey! I didn't get to reply because this got lost somewhere.

Thanks for the tip! I get it now (so all I have to do is run and edit...again). I suppose I am telling the story rather than showing it, but the thing is, if I show it, it'll be longer than it actually is and the flashbacks are all necessary....