Character Vs Plot

It's character first for me pretty nearly all the time, though there have been some exceptions.

I have a plot in mind, however, I do an in-depth character profiling that will let the character(s) run the plot and subplots.

Characters are what readers remember.

Plot first. Something has to happen.

Once I have an epic view of what happened, then I go in like an investigative reporter: who did it? Why? When? Where? Why there? If it's a military thriller, I put a sailor's spin on the five basic questions:

1. Who TF?
2. What TF?
3. Where TF?
4. When TF?
5. Why TF?

Once I have placeholder people, I start exploring why them? Some characters are colorful, really fun to follow. Others are very drab – and that can tell a good bit of story all by itself.

Neither. For me, they both develop at the same time.

It varies. For my last mss, it was the idea that came first (to call it a plot at that stage is pushining it). For the mss I'm starting next, it was the character.

To be honest, when I write, I have nothing but a scene in mind. I write the scene and from that both character and plot emerge.

character

The characters come first. If the plot tries to come first I won't write that story. Plot has to come last, after the story is told.

It's characters readers care about and remember, not plot, and when plot comes first, it just gets in the way of characters.

I think they're so intertwined it's hard for me to separate which comes first.
You can create a character out of thin air, but it isn't until you add the "and what happens?" that you have a story. Or you can come up with a great premise for an event, but only when you have it happen to/around someone the reader's going to care about do you have a story.

So I can't agree with this:

when plot comes first, it just gets in the way of characters

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Plot can obviously help create your characters. Throw two people together in a stressful circumstance: trapped underground, chained together by aliens, trying to plan their offspring's wedding. What if one of them is trying to make up for a guilty past? is claustrophobic? has a hair-trigger temper? always assumes he's right? is recovering from addiction?

I think that can work at least as well as dreaming up an interesting person, and then finding ways to challenge her or him.

I get an vague idea for a character when the story pops into my head, but it isn't a real defined idea yet. The character takes shape with the story because they both work together. The character shapes the story and the story shapes the character. I get an overall story arc idea first then I break it down in to plot points. Those points are determined by how my character would react to those events which shapes the next event. I think of it like life, we make our decisions which influence (to some degree - there are always things beyond our control) what happens to us and what happens to us also shapes our personalities. I can't really seperate the two completely. But again I'm a complete novice with nothing but a head full of ideas to show.
(I keep it in a pickle jar under my desk. I'll show you if you're nice shhhh...)

I agree with the people for whom plot and character are intertwined. I mean, most plots would be totally different if the characters involved were different, no?

Edit: Well, I guess that depends on the level of control the characters have on the events that go on in the story. But I tend to write characters who are more than just along for the ride.

seun said:

I've often wondered which comes first for most writers: character or plot. For me, it's usually a case of a character comes along and waits a while before the plot arrives. I then work the two together and introduce the supporting characters.

How does it work for others?

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I'm not quite sure how plot could come before character. How your characters act and react is what DETERMINES plot.

Now if you mean IDEAS vs. character, then my stories often begin with a germ of an idea -- a what if. What if a cop discovered his wife was having an affair with the number one suspect in a serial murder?

Then I figure out who the cop is, who the wife is, who the serial murder is and why all of this would be happening, then go from there. The characters' wants and needs define what direction the story -- or plot -- goes in.

If you try the reverse, try to wedge characters into a predetermined plot, then the result will likely be false, flat and uninvolving.

for me, story and general plot first, but characters become EXTREMELY important and they start to drive the plot -- the story stays the same, though.

I'm going with Ray on this one. I'm not talking about detailed plot, but if a story revolves around putting interesting characters in unusual and/or compelling situations, I have to think of at least one or two of the situations before I get too far into characterizing the players. If this question refers to the complete plot, then no, plot doesn't come first since it has to stay fluid (for me), even if an end-point is envisioned.

This, like nearly all things in writing, has no right or wrong answer--no better or worse for all people. It will be as individual as we all are. What is interesting is we may see a significant shift in how we do things like this as we get more experienced in our writing.

I guess I think of story and plot as two different things. When you say plot I think of the exact sequence of events I think of the story in more vague terms. I think I have a story idea first- but as part of that I think of a character- then the plot and character grow together- The story is first- and the character floats in with it- not fully developed though- then the plot and the character develope together. I start with an fuzzy idea, (a story about this and that) then I add the pieces that bring it into focus. Gosh, I don't think I'm making much sense...I understand it but if I want to be a writer I'd better get a bit better at communication .

i'll have a premise first, then put the characters in. invariably, the characters quickly take over because, imo, it's the characters that are the most important thing about a story. i just need a reason to attach characters to, and a 'plot' or premise or germ of a thought is needed for me to decide what *kind* of characters i want. i'm a hack, though, so once i know a few things the rest just about writes itself after i work the lesbian scenes in.

laurel, i think of 'plot' as what would roughly be on the back cover to encourage people to open the book. i never really delved into the textbook definitions of 'plot,' 'story,' 'storyline,' and 'story arc.'

preyer, for the "textbook" definition: Aristotle said plot is the "arrangement of incidents" that create your story. In other words, what happens scene to scene flowing logically from one to the next, based, of course, on how the characters act and react to opposing forces.

I'm in the "it varies" camp.

For one novel, I knew the characters first. No idea what they were going to be doing in the story, but I knew them. Once I let them wiggle around and find their footing, the story flowed from that. From the story, I discovered the plot.

For another novel, I had the story idea and a very vague idea of the actual plot. It lingered for a while until I stole the characters from another project that had a small story, but no plot, and it was a perfect fit.

I think that more often than not, I'll meet the characters first. Then, after they have made themselves home in my psyche, we'll start to suss out their story.

i also don't go searching for plots or stories. whatever i do is based entirely on what i like that moment. i find i like ghosts, pirates, and indefensible arguments. just whatever seems cool to me. other things i find uber-titilating are abandonned ships/mansions in a state of decay, graveyards, anti-heroes/rogues-with-a-heart-of-gold characters, rediscovered objects fromt he past, and generally those things i can drive some pathos out of, such as a battlefield after the battle (not particularly interested in the battle itself, to be honest).

in a general story sense, i often aim for the aftermath of things as a start (see combinations of the above), and don't shy away from tragedy or tragic endings in the least. very, very rarely do any of my stories contain an idyllic setting, nor do i deal with many absolutes, and you could argue i'm overly dramatic. i have a stock character stable i'll use where i feel appropriate (that being based on how entertaining it is for me to write), and i often don't even change the names of characters from one story to another except for the MC/s. for example, 'Ola' will always be the loose cannon and betrayer, seemingly on one side of things but his unsanity brings him and those around him down (somewhat a variation of judas).

without detailing every single bit and part of these things, you get the idea, no? what it amounts to is i've got these, i guess you'd called them, 'internal templates' that shape the story. from there the setting and premise determines my plot. i'll always have scenes in mind before writing, and rarely do i start writing a story at his beginnings. as you can probably guess, i don't do much in the way of outlines.

on the flip-side, there are things i *don't* do as much as things that i do. for instance, if ever you find a child hero in the beginning of my story, rest assured he's there to be slaughtered quickly (unless that child happens to grow up quickly). rarely are my MCs happily married. i avoid mary sues as much as possible. and if ever i use a camaro instead of a mustang, there's a reason: the slut drives the chevy, the hero drives a mustang. my characters are rarely virginal, and i tend to avoid skinny body-types unless the story calls for it (this is just personal preference coming through: i like curves on a woman, lol).

that's why if someone gives me a timeframe, setting and genre, i'm off. the entire story is written around the very first scene i scratch down, be that scene the end or somewhere in the middle. from there i'm connecting the dots in ways that seem obvious to me.

Little germy ideas first, usually odd little questions I ask myself then characters that can answer these questions.

For example, my current WIPs were based on the following questions:

What if the key witness to a serial killer was a ghost, how would the FBI react to this knowledge, that they know they can't bring to court?

What if there was a ghost behind a boarded up door and someone went in to open up that door?

What if there was a child who loved baseball but he was never allowed outside for a very good reason?

What if there was a guy whose soul never quite attached?

What if Satan was dead and hell was run like a beaucracy?

What if there was a girl who could not be remembered by anyone was actually remembered by someone and she didn't like it (being remembered that is)?

Regarding plot not coming first, I think of Grisham novels. I think of them as plot-driven: basically a plot with generic characters inserted. That's why when I think of his books (actually I've seen more movies made from his novels than read his novels), I remember the plots and not the characters.