women's fiction vs. romance (like this hasn't been asked before)

Becky Writes · Aug 9, 2006

Okay, as I understand it, women's fiction is about the journey of the herione(s) and romance is about the journey of the love affair.

Is that right?

I ask because my WIP is a love story, but the heroine (Casey) is dealing with more than just "getting the man" so to speak. She's also dealing with her past, her family, her job...it's a total journey that happens to end up with her and the hero HEA. This is probably more women's fiction, right? I'm thinking it's probablynot romance, because a major storyline is the realtionship between Casey and her sister.

This kind of stuff makes me feel so stupid.

JanDarby · Aug 9, 2006

It's all about what the DOMINANT storyline is.

Is the story question "Will she get her man?" or is the story question "Will she grow up [or learn some such life lesson?" One will be dominant and the other will probably also exist, but as a subplot or a background/setting, because romances don't happen in a vaccuum.

There's always other stuff happening, but one thread is dominant and another thread is secondary. Just like one character (or the hero and heroine together) will be the main character and other characters will be secondary.

The line between what's called women's fiction and what's called romance is always fuzzy anyway, and it's sort of a "you know it when you see it" thing. If you look at Jenny Crusie's books the heroine has a lot going on in her life and makes more of a journey than the hero (usually). But they're definitely romance, b/c that's the main plot. Pat Gaffney would be more of an example of women's fiction, where the heroine's growth and non-romantic issues are the primary plot, and any romantic relationship is secondary.

JD

Becky Writes · Aug 9, 2006

Well, the love story IS the MAIN thing.

IrishScribbler · Aug 10, 2006

JanDarby's is a good distinction. Romance is so labelled because it deals predominantly with romance. (However, I've read some chick lit pieces that are generally considered "women's fiction" that I would prefer to refer to as "romance.")

Another good indicator is that women's fiction is not as "light" as romance. Often, women's fiction deals with painful situations, and how the women get through it....in women's fiction, there isn't always a happy ending.

Alice Sebold's novel, Lovely Bones, is a good example of women's fiction, as is her memoir, Lucky.

A good one to look at for the fuzzy line that Jan mentions is Disobedience by Jane Hamilton. It's narrated by a young man as he sort of spies on his mother through her emails and discovers she's having an affair. There is an element of romance in the affair, but the story is about the mother dealing with the conflict between wife/mother and woman. (Then again, being narrated by a male character adds the complication that perhaps it isn't women's fiction at all, but a coming of age story about the son....read it and let me know what you think!)

All romance is women's fiction. Not all women's fiction is romance.

Josie · Aug 11, 2006

Me everytime I think about the term "Women's Fiction"

:e2BIC:

Me if I forget about it and do the part I love

Cheers

Sonarbabe · Aug 11, 2006

Josie said:
Me everytime I think about the term "Women's Fiction"

Me if I forget about it and do the part I love

Cheers

LOL! I'm sorry, but that post just struck me as funny!!! Forgive me, Josie, but I feel I must add to that. Hope you don't mind.

:popcorn:

Me when I "go to check a few threads at AW"

Me when I realize I've been at AW for 3 hours instead of writing!! Ack!

Josie · Aug 11, 2006

Good heavens. Don't apologize. If you laughed I was a success!!!!

At first I thot"Omigod, someone has found me out...staying on here for 3 hrs."

Brenda Hill · Aug 11, 2006

Can anyone suggest an average word count for a women's fiction manuscript? I checked Harlequin's Next line, which is approx 75,000 words, but what if the story doesn't have that much of a love story and wouldn't qualify for Harlequin?

JanDarby · Aug 12, 2006

The word count depends on who you're submitting to. Harlequin has specific word counts for different lines. For other publishers, single title is usually in the 80K to 100K range.

Oh, and the NEXT line, as I understand it, and based on the summaries of the books that have been released so far, doesn't need to have much romance. It's more about the woman starting over than about romance.

JD

Brenda Hill · Aug 12, 2006

Thanks, Jan. 80,000 to 100,000 sounds about right. I'm a little short of that.

Sonarbabe · Aug 12, 2006

I agree with Jan. Most women's fiction (and romance too) are between 80,000-100,000 words.

I don't think they'll penalize you too much if you fall short by a 1,000 words either way, will they?

Brenda Hill · Aug 13, 2006

Don't know, but when friend sold to Silhouette, her word count was over the amount stated in the guidelines. They asked her to cut.

Susan Gable · Aug 13, 2006

Please remember that the posted guidelines for H/S these days are counted in COMPUTER WORD COUNT now, not in the old 250 wpp method. That's important to keep in mind.

Susan G.

NCwriter · Aug 13, 2006

Susan Gable said:
Please remember that the posted guidelines for H/S these days are counted in COMPUTER WORD COUNT now, not in the old 250 wpp method.

It is? How long have they been doing that?

Josie · Aug 13, 2006

Hi Thanks Susan. I did remember about the way of the computer count with H/S.

But I can't remember if that was all the lines. The changes happened about 6 mths. ago I think.

Also noting by computer count (which is more accurate) you get less words than by the page count at 250 words a page.

Somewhere under the category Romance/Women' s Fiction here I think Cathy or Susan entered the scale changes rather clearly and helpfully. Again thanks gals.

When I find it I'll post the website address.

Cheers

Susan Gable · Aug 13, 2006

NCwriter said:
It is? How long have they been doing that?

Ummmm...a few months? I almost single-handedly managed to stir up some brouhaha over it because I didn't understand what they were doing at first, and I thought they were shortening all the lines word counts by 10K.

Which they DID -- but like, for me, it has no impact. Because my computer word count at the new, shorter "window" for my line is where I was hitting anyway. So for me, it didn't make much of a change. (I tend to be more with the dialogue, and shorter paragraphs, so I was heavier on the white space. Which means I had more pages, but fewer actual words.)

So, just look at the new guidelines, and use your computer word count to hit the H/S target now.

Susan G.

Brenda Hill · Aug 13, 2006

Thanks, Susan, and everyone. It can be so confusing.

Susan Gable · Aug 14, 2006

Southern Lady said:
Thanks, Susan, and everyone. It can be so confusing.

Amen to that. For all of us.

Susan G.

NCwriter · Aug 14, 2006

Ah. I knew Harlequin reduced the word count of the lines, but I didn’t hear that they were now using the actual word count as opposed to the 250 words/page formula. Thanks for letting me know.

Brenda Hill · Aug 14, 2006

By the way, Susan, I visited your website. Congratulations on the wonderful awards for your books. Excuse me while I drool.

Susan Gable · Aug 16, 2006

Southern Lady said:
By the way, Susan, I visited your website. Congratulations on the wonderful awards for your books. Excuse me while I drool.

Awwww, thanks! Feel free to drool, just don't get any on the awards. <VBG>

One day soon I have to take a picture of the award I just brough home from Atlanta, cause it's a really nice one. They do a fabulous job with their plaques at National Readers' Choice Awards.

PS - Anybody who visits my website, don't forget to enter my contest. I haven't been keeping things up-to-date, so I don't have that many folks entering my contest right now. Which means your chances to win are better!)

Susan G.

aruna · Aug 17, 2006

hmm. Just checked out your contest. It's just up my street. I'll have to think about it...

Brenda Hill · Aug 17, 2006

Susan, I'll be sure to turn around and drip away from you.

Hi Aruna! Nice to see you.

Susan Gable · Aug 18, 2006

Southern Lady said:
Susan, I'll be sure to turn around and drip away from you.

.

<G> Thank you. I appreciate that. <G>

On a serious note, though, I can't begin to tell you how much having my work recognized, particularly by readers, means to me. Winning something like the National Readers' Choice Award is a helpful blow to the doubt demons that still stand on my shoulders and whisper their cutting words. You know, that ones that say, "You don't know what you're doing. You're not really a writer, you're just playing at it. This story stinks!"

Bashing them over the head with a marble plaque is somewhat effective in shutting them up. <G>

Susan G.

Brenda Hill · Aug 19, 2006

Oh, yes, the doubt demons. If bashing them over the head with awards doesn't send them scurrying, I don't know what will.

women's fiction vs. romance (like this hasn't been asked before)

Go Tarheels!

Go Tarheels!

Working In A Coal Mine...

Diva in Training

Diva in Training

Working In A Coal Mine...

Diva in Training

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

Diva in Training

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

Diva in Training

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

On a wing and a prayer

Diva in Training

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

Diva in Training