Getting a Contract, Then an Agent

AnneMarble · Aug 8, 2006

I know most of the books on writing novels used to suggest submitting your novel to the publisher, getting a contract, and then using the fact that you had a contract to get an agent. (Now many experts suggest getting the agent first, but some people still suggest getting that contract first).

However, I heard about a speech given by an editor at a recent conference, and the editor said that she really hated new unagented authors who got a contract and then came back with an agent. Months ago, I also read something written by a publisher (may God rest his soul), where he was really upset because he had accepted a novel from an unagented author, and then the author used the contract to get an agent. (I think he dropped the author because of that, but I may have read the post wrong.)

Is this a common view among editors and publishers? Or were these just isolated incidents? If this is common, am I wrong in saying this attitude really p*sses me off? :tongue

I mean, God forbid the author should have an agent to help them through the maze of publishing contracts. God forbid they should follow the advice they saw in countless books on writing!
:rant:

Or is the writing field simply changing so much that if an unagented author uses a contract to get an agent, they might be upsetting the editor or publisher?

jchines · Aug 8, 2006

I'm betting I know the late publisher, because that's exactly what happened when Baen offered to buy my book. On the advice of many published pros, I brought an agent in to the mix. Baen rescinded the offer.

This is very unusual. Most publishers expect you to run and grab an agent to help you negotiate an offer. Contracts are messy, complicated things, and I certainly wasn't qualified to examine my own. Some people do, and do a good job of it. Not I. And not the vast majority of publishers and editors, to the best of my knowledge.

Jim Baen ran his company the way he chose, for better and for worse. I happened to disagree with him on this one (big surprise, right?), but I wouldn't challenge his right to run his company in whatever way he saw fit. Given the success of Baen Books, he was doing something right.

Back to your question though -- this was unusual. Most pro authors were telling me to get an agent, and most publishers would have no problem with you doing so.

Kristen King · Aug 8, 2006

For a particular book that I've been pitching, I had several agents (yeah, real live agents) tell me to go directly to the specific publishers I had in mind, which were the same ones they had in mind for the book, and then to contact the agent when I needed help negotiating the contract. One told me, and I quote, "Don't waste your time dicking around with this agent crap. All they're going to do is take 15% off the top, and for a book like this you don't need that." Um, okay, works for me.

I've also heard nonagents, like editors and publicists, suggest, for certain books, going straight to the publisher and then contacting agents to request representation: "Deal Pending, Need Contract Negotiation."

If a publisher breaks a contract because the writer brings in a pro to negotiate on his behalf, there was probably something seriously wrong with the contract in the first place, no? :]

Hope that helps.

Kristen

jchines · Aug 8, 2006

A lot depends on the genre, too. Some genres are much more friendly to direct submissions, whereas others all but require an agent if you're going to have any chance whatsoever.

I think SF/F is somewhere in the middle, but I'm not claiming to be an expert.

AnneMarble · Aug 8, 2006

Good, it seems I'm not going insane. Not about this, anyway.

triceretops · Aug 8, 2006

Yes, Jim Baen did not suffer agents after-the-fact well at all. I don't know if this is currently wide-spread, but think that it might be the exception. The majority of editors seem to have no problem with it. the discovery issue is at hand in where an editor believes that they've found that writer first, so how dare the agent come in and make a second claim to a manuscript that wasn't vetted and repped in the first place? Jim also complained that the after-the-fact agents came in with a little more moxie and arrogance than he liked.

But I'll always wonder if the money angle had just a little itsy bitsy thing to do with it when contract time came around. New writers (without agents) can get some horrible boilerplate deals. Ask me--it happened to me twice.

Tri

Cathy C · Aug 8, 2006

Kristen King said:
One told me, and I quote, "Don't waste your time dicking around with this agent crap. All they're going to do is take 15% off the top, and for a book like this you don't need that."

Um . . . I can't really even think of a response to this, except look for better agents at conferences.

K1P1 · Aug 8, 2006

So glad I stumbled into this thread. I'm exactly in this position now. Just got the contract from my publisher for my second book last week. I realize that this is getting serious and that I need representation because my first book is really successful and I'm making money on it, but I suspect that if an agent had negotiated the deal I'd be making at least twice as much. So I researched agents and now have done phone interviews with three of them, all of whom I like and have good track records. Two of them have represented authors with this same publisher before, so I'm assuming that the publisher won't mind dealing with these agents again. Do you think I'm being naive?

Kristen King · Aug 8, 2006

Cathy C said:
Um . . . I can't really even think of a response to this, except look for better agents at conferences.

Heh. I thought it was hilarious. This guy knows his stuff, and he's a straight shooter. I suspected going into it that I didn't really need an agent to help me find a home for this book, and he (along with several other agents and a publisher) confirmed that suspicion, so I'm good with it. It's turned into a great story. ;]

K1P1 said:
Just got the contract from my publisher for my second book last week. I realize that this is getting serious and that I need representation because my first book is really successful and I'm making money on it, but I suspect that if an agent had negotiated the deal I'd be making at least twice as much. So I researched agents and now have done phone interviews with three of them, all of whom I like and have good track records. Two of them have represented authors with this same publisher before, so I'm assuming that the publisher won't mind dealing with these agents again. Do you think I'm being naive?

Well-reasoned and intelligent research is the polar opposite of naive. If you feel that these agents are well suited to you and this particular book, then it's just icing on the cake that they've worked with that publisher before--they'll know the ins and outs of the publisher's contract and will be able to guide you through the process with the expertise of someone who's done it before. That's not to say that an agent who's worked with the publisher previously is the only one who can do that, but hey, it can help. The only caveat is that if the publisher hates this agent for some reason, it may create a little tension, but in that case I would hope the agent would politely decline anyway.

Kristen

K1P1 · Aug 8, 2006

Kristen King said:
Well-reasoned and intelligent research is the polar opposite of naive. If you feel that these agents are well suited to you and this particular book, then it's just icing on the cake that they've worked with that publisher before--they'll know the ins and outs of the publisher's contract and will be able to guide you through the process with the expertise of someone who's done it before. That's not to say that an agent who's worked with the publisher previously is the only one who can do that, but hey, it can help. The only caveat is that if the publisher hates this agent for some reason, it may create a little tension, but in that case I would hope the agent would politely decline anyway.

Thanks for the reassurance, Kristen. It's not so much the agents' relationship with this particular publisher that I think is valuable, but the fact that it's evidence they know my particular section of the publishing industry (knitting), which is a strange little sideline, as nonfiction topics go.

In some advice on how to find an agent, I ran across the suggestion that you ask your publisher about agents they've dealt with, the idea being that they'd recommend someone they felt comfortable dealing with. I could see where this could be either a very good idea or a very, very bad idea. What do you think?

Kristen King · Aug 9, 2006

K1P1 said:
In some advice on how to find an agent, I ran across the suggestion that you ask your publisher about agents they've dealt with, the idea being that they'd recommend someone they felt comfortable dealing with. I could see where this could be either a very good idea or a very, very bad idea. What do you think?

I think "very good" and "very bad" are equally applicable to that scenario. If you want to go that route, I'd suggest that you ask them for two or three agents and then evaluate those agents the same way you would anyone who was recommended to you by some other complete stranger, and maybe a little more carefully. It's kind of like when a publisher recommends an editorial service: It's worth checking out, but do so thoroughly and cautiously, and just keep in the back of your mind that not everyone is as honest as you are. Research is key.

My two cents.

Kristen

Getting a Contract, Then an Agent

AnneMarble

Nefarious Ghost Fan

jchines

Got the hang of it, here

Kristen King

jchines

Got the hang of it, here

AnneMarble

Nefarious Ghost Fan

triceretops

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

K1P1

Procrastination is its own reward

Kristen King

K1P1

Procrastination is its own reward

Kristen King