I am writing a novel- It's general fiction I guess. I think it's pulpy more than lit fiction. I was aiming for 120K words. But in general, what is a good range for the word count on a novel?
What is a good word count for a novel?
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It's a little long for a debut mainstream novel, which ideally would be in the 80-100K range. But it's not outrageous, and since you're not done yet, the final word count could be very different.
Right now, I'd concentrate on getting the first draft out. Once you see what you've got, you can worry about cutting or adding as necessary.
Right now, I'd concentrate on getting the first draft out. Once you see what you've got, you can worry about cutting or adding as necessary.
ok thanks
I dont know why, but I'm very precise about planning things. I outline chapters in detail and seem to get the word count I aim for. So, I'll cut it in my head to 90K words and plan appropriately.
I dont know why, but I'm very precise about planning things. I outline chapters in detail and seem to get the word count I aim for. So, I'll cut it in my head to 90K words and plan appropriately.
Precise planning is OK, but don't forget that a first draft might be shorter or longer than the final draft.
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the last novel i seriously worked on wound up being about 130k words. i've noticed that this is my natural range. but, i managed to edit it down to just over a 100k. and i managed to do this by not deleting a single scene... in fact, i *added* stuff. i just took out a lot of garbage words. okay, A LOT of garbage words.
Hi,
What's made you aim at 120 000? It sounds like you've just picked an arbitrary number - sorry if I'm wrong. Unless you have a very precise idea of what you're going to write, how do you intend hitting your target? You can't get to 90 000, then just pad it out. A story is only as long as it is.
A novel is classed as anything over 60 000 words. If you're unpublished, aim for nearer that than your figure - every word costs and a publisher is more likely to shell out on a well written 60 000 word book than a well written one at double the length simply because it's cheaper to produce so there's less financial risk.
If I was you, I'd re-aim. Try 80 000.
Cheers,
Steve
What's made you aim at 120 000? It sounds like you've just picked an arbitrary number - sorry if I'm wrong. Unless you have a very precise idea of what you're going to write, how do you intend hitting your target? You can't get to 90 000, then just pad it out. A story is only as long as it is.
A novel is classed as anything over 60 000 words. If you're unpublished, aim for nearer that than your figure - every word costs and a publisher is more likely to shell out on a well written 60 000 word book than a well written one at double the length simply because it's cheaper to produce so there's less financial risk.
If I was you, I'd re-aim. Try 80 000.
Cheers,
Steve
I remember that Steven King says 120K is a good novel size to shoot for, but I've never really believed that.
I just finished the first draft of my novel and it came in at 91K. It will probably hover around that area through the second draft as I remove stuff, and add other stuff.
A friend told me that publishers don't like to print long first novels, as it costs more, but I'm sure if it were a stellar read, they would.
I just finished the first draft of my novel and it came in at 91K. It will probably hover around that area through the second draft as I remove stuff, and add other stuff.
A friend told me that publishers don't like to print long first novels, as it costs more, but I'm sure if it were a stellar read, they would.
Length
The average adult novel is 100K, and most publishers for most lines want novels ranging from 80-120K. For most publishers, and with most lines of books, anywhere within this is a safe range.
But for specifics you always have to check the guidelines of publishers who want the kind of novel you're writing, and if you're wise you'll do this before writing the book, not after.
The average adult novel is 100K, and most publishers for most lines want novels ranging from 80-120K. For most publishers, and with most lines of books, anywhere within this is a safe range.
But for specifics you always have to check the guidelines of publishers who want the kind of novel you're writing, and if you're wise you'll do this before writing the book, not after.
I'm writing a YA novel and it'll probably come in at around 50k, but i don't see much point in stressing over word-counts. If you walk into a bookstore you'll find bestsellers that are 200 pages and ones that are 600 pages and everything in between.
ok well
I could probably do the story in a minimum of 75K words, but I think it would be better longer than that. I'll do a draft and see what needs to be cut and what could be expanded. Right now Im at 10K. Last week I was at 0. I'm surprised at how fast its been so far.
I could probably do the story in a minimum of 75K words, but I think it would be better longer than that. I'll do a draft and see what needs to be cut and what could be expanded. Right now Im at 10K. Last week I was at 0. I'm surprised at how fast its been so far.
kilamangiro said:
You have to compare your first novel with other debut novels, not with all novels that are out there. Not many 600 page first novels, I'd bet.
I also can't help wondering why this question gets asked so often. It's not like this information is a trade secret or anything. Simple goooogling will get you instant detailed answers on this and other basic questions about the writing/submission/publishing process. And any visit to a bookstore will allow you to actually look at real books newly published and see exactly what's being released, and how long the average book is (hint: for adult novels, it's 80K to 100K words, as several others in this thread have noted. YA runs somewhat shorter.).
caw.
Over my mentorship here it has been said that a first novel by a new and unpublished writer should be between 75 to 100 thousand words.
Why?
You have no track record, readership. A publisher will not in most cases, unless the story is so outstanding to warrant, publish a long drawn out novel by a newbie. After several good books, with return readership and good sales, you may enjoy the opportunity to have a 3 or 4 hundred thousand word novel published.
Likewise, a 30 to 50 or even 60 thousand word work is unlikely to find a home.
Most new writers eat up the story and plot line quickly, because they have the ending in mind and rush toward it,and end up with a low word count ms. It's tough to flesh a book out, and something must be learned.
Keep it between the lines as stated by most above for your best chance of publication.
Why?
You have no track record, readership. A publisher will not in most cases, unless the story is so outstanding to warrant, publish a long drawn out novel by a newbie. After several good books, with return readership and good sales, you may enjoy the opportunity to have a 3 or 4 hundred thousand word novel published.
Likewise, a 30 to 50 or even 60 thousand word work is unlikely to find a home.
Most new writers eat up the story and plot line quickly, because they have the ending in mind and rush toward it,and end up with a low word count ms. It's tough to flesh a book out, and something must be learned.
Keep it between the lines as stated by most above for your best chance of publication.
Lines as stated? As much as people think this is an easy question to answer, can you see how this thread alone makes the answer complicated?
Someone with a 49K novel has an editor. Some say 80K-120K, some say 75K-100K. Genre fiction is different too (not that Im writing that), but I know some are in the 50K-70K range.
100K is average? Aim for 80K? If its good, it doesnt matter how long it is?
I think after looking at all of this, 85K-95K is my final goal.
Someone with a 49K novel has an editor. Some say 80K-120K, some say 75K-100K. Genre fiction is different too (not that Im writing that), but I know some are in the 50K-70K range.
100K is average? Aim for 80K? If its good, it doesnt matter how long it is?
I think after looking at all of this, 85K-95K is my final goal.
Ken Schneider said:
I know we are talking about first-time publishing here, but I just wanted to add (yes, I am STILL trying to avoid that deadline...) that some of the most beautiful books I have read have been short ones. It's such a shame that things have to be so rigid as to conform to set standards of word counts, when what should count is how well the story is told.
*shakes hand at the great unjustice*
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been there, done that...
I know exactly what you mean. Outlines are necessary I think, but they are by far written in stone. In my first book I had chapter that was pushing 40 pages! That's way too long for a chapter I think, and so I split it up. General readers like books they can carry with them, and a 40 page chapter will keep them reading for more than the length of a waiting room. Currently, I am putting a ten page limit on chapters and shooting for five to seven pages, instead of seventeen or twenty-two and so on. But by the same token, I do not want to underwrite a book and end up with a novella instead, because adding is harder for me than subtracting.
C.bronco said:
I know exactly what you mean. Outlines are necessary I think, but they are by far written in stone. In my first book I had chapter that was pushing 40 pages! That's way too long for a chapter I think, and so I split it up. General readers like books they can carry with them, and a 40 page chapter will keep them reading for more than the length of a waiting room. Currently, I am putting a ten page limit on chapters and shooting for five to seven pages, instead of seventeen or twenty-two and so on. But by the same token, I do not want to underwrite a book and end up with a novella instead, because adding is harder for me than subtracting.
Readers drive book sales, and publishers keep tabs on what sells. The average novel length falls between the lines of what has been quoted above.
These are word counts that best fit for unpublished authors for the best stab at publication.
Yes, some romance publishers such as Harlequin have different lines with different word count requirments.
such as:[FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=+1]Writing Guidelines[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]Harlequin Everlasting[/SIZE][/FONT]
Length: Approximately 70-75,000 words
Executive Editor: Paula Eykelhof
Editorial Office: Toronto, Canada
Find all of their lines,and word count requirments here:
http://www.eharlequin.com/cms/learntowrite/ltwArticle.jhtml?pageID=021101wu00001
Do you write romance? Do you write fantasy? Do you write mystery?
Reseaching publisher guidlines, wordcounts could answer your questions.
We've all read some wonderful short books. But, they better be wonderful, just like super long books better be wonderful to reach publication.
A more recent short book of 50 some thousand or so words, The Notebook by Nicholas Sparks, was his first novel. I read the story about how he found an agent, and was offered, and accepted a million dollar advance for this fresh, new, super good, short book. As you all know, it was a bestseller. But it was extra super good writing.
These are word counts that best fit for unpublished authors for the best stab at publication.
Yes, some romance publishers such as Harlequin have different lines with different word count requirments.
such as:[FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=+1]Writing Guidelines[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]Harlequin Everlasting[/SIZE][/FONT]
Length: Approximately 70-75,000 words
Executive Editor: Paula Eykelhof
Editorial Office: Toronto, Canada
Find all of their lines,and word count requirments here:
http://www.eharlequin.com/cms/learntowrite/ltwArticle.jhtml?pageID=021101wu00001
Do you write romance? Do you write fantasy? Do you write mystery?
Reseaching publisher guidlines, wordcounts could answer your questions.
We've all read some wonderful short books. But, they better be wonderful, just like super long books better be wonderful to reach publication.
A more recent short book of 50 some thousand or so words, The Notebook by Nicholas Sparks, was his first novel. I read the story about how he found an agent, and was offered, and accepted a million dollar advance for this fresh, new, super good, short book. As you all know, it was a bestseller. But it was extra super good writing.
Length
If you have to be outside guidelines, it's better to be too short than too long. But you should look at guidelines before writing a novel. Not doing so just isn't very smart. It always puts extra roadblock in your way, and there are already enough.
But in the right genre, and with the right publisher, 49K is a real possibility. "The Bridges of Madison County" was only 35K, and "The Notebook" was only 49K.
Most publishers, however, expect guidelines to be read and followed. They ask for specific lengths for reasons, and anything outside these guidelines is usually a very tough sell.
stephblake24 said:
If you have to be outside guidelines, it's better to be too short than too long. But you should look at guidelines before writing a novel. Not doing so just isn't very smart. It always puts extra roadblock in your way, and there are already enough.
But in the right genre, and with the right publisher, 49K is a real possibility. "The Bridges of Madison County" was only 35K, and "The Notebook" was only 49K.
Most publishers, however, expect guidelines to be read and followed. They ask for specific lengths for reasons, and anything outside these guidelines is usually a very tough sell.
Different genres have different guidelines. Fantasy folks don't even blink when you shoot past 100K; DAW (SF) specifies a minimum of 80K. Some romance novels can be very short, but this tends to vary by imprint, and some imprints have very tight word count requirements (+/- 5K!).
Despite all of the yakking you will hear about publishers not wanting to buy long books, the average book on the stands is now much longer than it was a few decades back. Browse through a store selling used paperbacks, and you will find plenty of mystery, SF and mainstream that hovers around 200 pages. Those are rare nowadays.
My advice is not to think about the problem until you have a first draft. Let the story tell itself without trying to stretch or compact it.
Despite all of the yakking you will hear about publishers not wanting to buy long books, the average book on the stands is now much longer than it was a few decades back. Browse through a store selling used paperbacks, and you will find plenty of mystery, SF and mainstream that hovers around 200 pages. Those are rare nowadays.
My advice is not to think about the problem until you have a first draft. Let the story tell itself without trying to stretch or compact it.
It is women's fiction. Somewhat of a "quiet" book. Story of forgiveness between estranged father and daughter. I can only hope it resembles something Nicholas Spark wrote.
One editor reading it is at a small press, and the other is a medium imprint. No guidelines on word count.
Each editor has 3 chapters and a synopsis, and both know it is coming in at 49,000. (I like odd numbers, I guess)
Technically it is my 2nd attempt at a novel. I shelved the other without finishing it because it was chick lit before chick lit was popular and it bored me.
Since finishing, I wrote a short Middle Grade which is only 20K and it is with an editor also.
Guesss the theory is blown about word count. Just tell the story you want to tell.
One editor reading it is at a small press, and the other is a medium imprint. No guidelines on word count.
Each editor has 3 chapters and a synopsis, and both know it is coming in at 49,000. (I like odd numbers, I guess)
Technically it is my 2nd attempt at a novel. I shelved the other without finishing it because it was chick lit before chick lit was popular and it bored me.
Since finishing, I wrote a short Middle Grade which is only 20K and it is with an editor also.
Guesss the theory is blown about word count. Just tell the story you want to tell.
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Try this on for size:
http://www.ralan.com/
Maybe this will help, dunno? ;-)
Select "Book Publishers" from the list to the right.
http://www.ralan.com/
Maybe this will help, dunno? ;-)
Select "Book Publishers" from the list to the right.
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